Are Indians Racist?

[Neo]

first of all let me say that i am overly amused by agra's desperation...
during the entire conversation with anyone on this forum i never loose my cool but yes i do say truth and i say it without mincing words...if thats unbearable for u agra...its ur problem
ok enlightment time again..hehe...why did i bring china in the context....and once again a sincere request to agra to not only read but also comprehend....or at least ask doubt if in doubt...
i was merely pointing the fact that agra talking like a guru on the issue of casteism is like me talking about chinese civil war..to me chinese appear uncivilised coz of that...unless agra is willing to admit my point of view about china based on the reports i see in world media and reputable organisations...what right does he have to talk about casteism based on the "reputable" sources he has...

[Neo]

The UN link I gave about India's compliance with Convention against racism is a credible source. You overstretched yourself by claiming that ALL links are credible.

agra u just sound like another chinese diplomat...when it comes to amnesty criticising china its overstretching when UN says something about india its credible...when UN is unable to pass a resolution against china because of china veto it still is a credible organisation...lolz..

You are being very modest by describing rampant caste discrimination, if not oppression, as stray incidents in India.

there are so many castes in india that u don't even know what is discrimination and what is social demarcation....well if 160 million dalits in india were really oppressed then i think i ll call china a bigot country till i see a tibetan as chinese president....because we already have a dalit as our president..
[/QUOTE]

I am still waiting for a convincing reply from you guys to the UN recommendations to Indian government on combating racism.

UR waiting in vain..india has rejected UN's "outsider" view of racism pushed by few western countries under the guilt of their own crimes...if we don't give a damn about what UN says where is the question of convincing u..? ur not even a guilt ridden country for what u did to tibet...(hard hitting answer i know but what can i do...i have a knack for stating rude facts...

It is Neo who threw up dirt on China at the sight of my reply in disregard of the topic of the thread. Blame Neo for that. Let's focus on the topic of this thread: Are Indians racist?

NO ...if rohit, me, india89, observer who all are different castes, belong to different states possibly different religions together say NO and have given enough examples of india's promotion of all castes, minorities...we really don't give a damn on ur opinion
thats why i said in first place...ur just an outsider...u can't tolerate my facts about china but u have a big mouth when it comes to india....unless u have some more points than u keep repeating i suggest u find a new topic to criticise india...
good luck on ur next tirade...hehe

[observer]

In India we don't call any dalit or whoever someone from another ethnicity. We call everyone an Indian. But some people are looked down as having a lower social status than others. This is feudalism not racism. So India isn't a racist country, it's a feudal country.

[Agra]

Neo, you are oversensitive to comments from outsiders, esp on the issue of your treasured caste system.
China may have a veto power, but it is limited only to matters raised in the Security Council and can do nothing about the conclusions / recommendations to be put forward by the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination.

When that committee which is composed of independent experts selected on the merit of their integrity and professionalism proposed to India the recommendations as follows:
# Introduce mandatory training on the application of India’s Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act for police, judges and prosecutors, and take disciplinary measures against those who fail to implement this law.
# Ensure the protection of witnesses and victims to caste-based crimes and ensure their immediate access to effective remedies.
# Prosecute and punish perpetrators of sexual violence and sexual exploitation of Dalit women, and sanction anyone found preventing or discouraging victims from reporting such incidents, including public officials.
# Eradicate the social acceptance of caste-based discrimination through public education and awareness campaigns.
# Ensure equal access to health care, safe drinking water, and other public services.
# Investigate all alleged cases of discrimination against Dalits in post-tsunami relief and compensate or retroactively grant benefits to victims of such discrimination.
# Take effective measures to reduce dropout rates and increase enrollment rates among Dalits at all levels of schooling by providing scholarships and by ending classroom segregation.
# Ensure proper enforcement of reservations or quotas to counter the under-representation of Dalits and tribal communities in government and public services.
# Adopt measures to enhance Dalits’ access to the labor market, including by extending the reservation policy to the private sector.
# Repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act that, while providing the armed forces with widespread powers to search, arrest and shoot suspects, leading to allegations of human rights abuses, has immunity provisions under which troops cannot be prosecuted unless authorized by the Central Government.

it does suggest something is terribly wrong with Indian society to the outsiders.

That fact that you don't give a damn to such reputable body shows that you are frustrated and choose to bury your head into the sand. It is a natural response from someone who ttends to blame the down-trodden people for all their sufferings.

You will be quick to point out that Amnesty International is a reputable source when it comes to China's human rights record. Yes, it may be, but not on the same par as the Committee on the elimination of Racial Discrimination.

Whatever truth/dirt you may have about China does not change world's perception of rampant caste discriminaiton in India and incompetence of its government on the matter.

We have had enough exchanges on the issue Are Indians Racist, a topic raised by your own countryman. If you are not able convince your own countrymen about nice racial/ethnic relations in India, small wonder you can not sell your arguements abroad.

It is fun to be with your guys.

[India1989]

india89...no one is denying that we don't have problems. what me and rohit were talking about is the misconception of the severity of caste system and its linking to racism by outsiders like agra who were adopting a biased approach with regard to reports by western media/agencies.

u have brought in a whole new issue and yes i agree this kind of discrimination does exist but to say that its only with regard to north east is not accurate. comeon, all of us have heard of all the south indians being labelled "madrasis" in the north and subject to ridicule because of the language and in reciprocity the intolerance of tamilans towards hindi speaking people.

if u go by such small divisions then it would appear the whole country is divided on some lines. but remember kargil war? the martyrs who died together came from all over india. north, south, north east (assam rifles and rajputana rifles fought bravely side by side)

regional differences and unity despite them- this is the essence of india. if u call it racism or consider it close then i think thats the over self critical nature of indians i am seeing in play.

neo,

That's what I meant discrimination is everywhere in India. but discrimnation is at a higher level at those places which I mentioned.

In India people do discriminate everyone but doesn't mean that they really hate them. It's just that it happens. India is world's most diverse country and these discrimnations are supposed to happen.

Indian army is a whole new spectra your brought in. Indian army is the most secular force in the world. I knew that. But I was talkign about Indian public. But these differences can cause a bit of discrimination which is not a big deal but these differences bring us together. That's the real India. And I am proud about India being so diverse and these discrimnations should happen otherwise what's the fun in living.

All i wanted to say that we can't deny that discriminations happen but it's not like we hate each other for that. Those are part and parcel of our life. Today discriminate, tomorrow we become friends. these cycles continue.

[Neo]

Neo, you are oversensitive to comments from outsiders, esp on the issue of your treasured caste system.
China may have a veto power, but it is limited only to matters raised in the Security Council and can do nothing about the conclusions / recommendations to be put forward by the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination.

i m not oversensitive...i outright reject comments from countries who are guilt ridden by their own racial past and are pushing the so called agenda of eradication of casteism when truth is its the west which is still plagued by covert racism...
the so called committee on elimination of racial discrimination had how many members from the colonies of britian? or from latin america? or from tibet? or from south africa?

When that committee which is composed of independent experts selected on the merit of their integrity and professionalism proposed to India the recommendations as follows:

and an overbearing guilt for the racist ancestory these guys had

# Introduce mandatory training on the application of India’s Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act for police, judges and prosecutors, and take disciplinary measures against those who fail to implement this law.
# Ensure the protection of witnesses and victims to caste-based crimes and ensure their immediate access to effective remedies.
# Prosecute and punish perpetrators of sexual violence and sexual exploitation of Dalit women, and sanction anyone found preventing or discouraging victims from reporting such incidents, including public officials.

even the dumbest of human would say that the above points should be applicable to all individuals of a society and not only a special class...if these intelligent and pseudo professionals had any idea of the crimes in india they would realise that its not only dalits who suffer at the hands of police and judicial inaction but any poor person without money or "reach" irresepective of caste or creed.
thats why i call outsiders with big mouths and small brains gullible...because they have no true assessment of the ground realities and still keep preaching

# Eradicate the social acceptance of caste-based discrimination through public education and awareness campaigns.
# Ensure equal access to health care, safe drinking water, and other public services.

the first point is the only one that makes sense and people are becoming aware of that themselves...
its a known fact that many villages in india don't have access to safe drinking water...if the foreigners dream that india has segregated its population and only dalits live in such villages then they are outright stupid

# Investigate all alleged cases of discrimination against Dalits in post-tsunami relief and compensate or retroactively grant benefits to victims of such discrimination.
# Take effective measures to reduce dropout rates and increase enrollment rates among Dalits at all levels of schooling by providing scholarships and by ending classroom segregation.

i din't hear of such complaints on any of national media (independent btw...unlike xinhua) about post tsunami discrimination....
drop out rates of dalits alone? why? 45% of india's population is illiterate...people drop out coz poverty forces them out...eradicating poverty will solve problems for all the people instead of focusing on one group

# Ensure proper enforcement of reservations or quotas to counter the under-representation of Dalits and tribal communities in government and public services.

the quota system doesn't need to be enforced...40% of indian university seats are reserved and filled every year by SC,STs and dalits ....for the guys who wrote this report it would have been an eye opener to visit any technical institute and see it for themselves..

# Adopt measures to enhance Dalits’ access to the labor market, including by extending the reservation policy to the private sector.

this shows how naive outsiders can be....private sector doesn't work on the policy of social upliftment...its first motive and survival depends on profit...i wonder if tomorrow GOI tells all the software multinationals to fill in 30% of vacancies on social cause instead of merit...how long would it be before all these companies close their business and move elsewhere...probably china...
hidden agenda of the chinese? wonder if a committe member was from there...just kiddin..don't turn blue agra..

# Repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act that, while providing the armed forces with widespread powers to search, arrest and shoot suspects, leading to allegations of human rights abuses, has immunity provisions under which troops cannot be prosecuted unless authorized by the Central Government.

yea...the typical mentality to slip in an item that doesn't even come close to caste...the AFSPA was enforced in the state of manipur to counter insurgency...it was not against any specific caste....proves the point...some idiots just doing their paper work...

i have given a point by point assessment of the recommendations by these outsiders....and anyone who knows indian society well would understand that all this hulla boo about dalits should actually be a hulla boo about the poor and powerless in india....poverty is rampant and so is oppression of the poor in many areas...and for someone who believes that oppressors choose whom to oppress based on caste....i have just one sentence...
try to open ur narrow eyes...

as for convincing my fellow indians...i don't need to...read their posts correctly....for people born and brought up in india...things i said will make sense...for indians born and raised in west things will appear different because of the western "education" they recieve...
its a well known fact that public transportation in london sees subtle racism against indians even today...seats next to them are not occupied...if people raised in such countries have doubts about what those countries taught them about caste system in india...ur friendly desi brothers are here to educate u...:d

as for outsiders like u agra...i repeat...we don't give a damn... because we know that ur guilt ridden mentality for crimes against colonies, tibet or elsewhere forces u to put the blame elsewhere to satisgy the false ego of one upmanship...

u guys make me pity u...

[Agra]

Neo, It seems that your ranting criticism of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is based on your assumption that the committee is controlled or manipulated by the west.

Enlightenment time (to use your favourate word) for an ostrich whose small head and brain (Neo's favourate again) is buried in the sand:

The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination is composed of 18 independent experts who are persons of high moral standing and acknowledged impartiality. Consideration must also be given to equitable geographical distribution and to the representation of the different forms of civilization as well as of the principal legal systems.
CERD monitors implementation of the Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. All States parties, India included, are obliged to submit regular reports to the Committee on how the rights are being implemented.

The current membership of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination is:

Mr. Mahmoud ABOUL-NASR Egypt
Mr. Noureddine AMIR Algeria
Mr. Alexei S. AVTONOMOV Russian Federation
Mr. Ralph F. BOYD Jr. United States of America
Mr. José Francisco CALI TZAY Guatemala
Ms. Fatimata-Binta Victoire DAH (Vice-Chairperson) Burkina Faso
Mr. Kokou Mawuena Ika Kana (Dieudonnè) Ewomsan Togo
Mr. Régis de GOUTTES (Chairperson) France
Ms. Patricia Nozipho JANUARY-BARDILL South Africa
Mr. Morten KJAERUM Denmark
Mr. José Augusto LINDGREN ALVES Brazil
Mr. Raghavan Vasudevan PILLAI (Vice- Chairperson) India
Mr. Agha SHAHI Pakistan
Mr. Linos-Alexander SICILIANOS Greece
Mr. Chengyuan TANG China
Mr. Patrick THORNBERRY (Rapporteur) United Kingdom
Mr. Luis VALENCIA RODRIGUEZ Ecuador
Mr. Mario Jorge YUTZIS (Vice-Chairperson) Argentina
(Source: http://www.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/members.htm)

Neo, open your myopic eyes and see red above: Most of the members are from outside the west and can not be accused of being biased in favour of the west in their opinions on India.

An Indian, Mr Pillai, sits on the committee and is its vice chairman. Do you call him an outsider with a big mouth and a small brain (like yours)?

During the recent hearing on India's report last month, Committee members uniformly took issue with the Indian government's refusal to acknowledge that caste-based discrimination is covered by the Convention and is an issue of international human rights concern. Indian delegation resorted to a semantic debate on the difference between caste and race, to no avail, of course, as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh himself already likened last December the practice of untouchability in India to apartheid in South Africa. The CERD regreted the Indian delegation's arrogant rejection of well-documented abuses against Dalits.

As to post-tsunami relief problem in India, the fact that Neo is not aware of an incident (Dalits denied relief by local officials) does not necessarily mean that the incident had not happened. Neo has an inflated view of yourself.

The CERD recommendations to India are worth repeating to knock the message home:

# Introduce mandatory training on the application of India’s Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act for police, judges and prosecutors, and take disciplinary measures against those who fail to implement this law.
# Ensure the protection of witnesses and victims to caste-based crimes and ensure their immediate access to effective remedies.
# Prosecute and punish perpetrators of sexual violence and sexual exploitation of Dalit women, and sanction anyone found preventing or discouraging victims from reporting such incidents, including public officials.
# Eradicate the social acceptance of caste-based discrimination through public education and awareness campaigns.
# Ensure equal access to health care, safe drinking water, and other public services.
# Investigate all alleged cases of discrimination against Dalits in post-tsunami relief and compensate or retroactively grant benefits to victims of such discrimination.
# Take effective measures to reduce dropout rates and increase enrollment rates among Dalits at all levels of schooling by providing scholarships and by ending classroom segregation.
# Ensure proper enforcement of reservations or quotas to counter the under-representation of Dalits and tribal communities in government and public services.
# Adopt measures to enhance Dalits’ access to the labor market, including by extending the reservation policy to the private sector.
# Repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act that, while providing the armed forces with widespread powers to search, arrest and shoot suspects, leading to allegations of human rights abuses, has immunity provisions under which troops cannot be prosecuted unless authorized by the Central Government.

Many NGOs considered reputable by many of you guys are calling on India to implement CERD recommendations as soon as possible. The organizations include the Human Rights Watch, the Centre for Human Rights and the Global Justice at New York University School of Law, and the International Dalit Solidarity Network. http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/mar/13dalits.htm)

Drag China in again ?

[Neo]

Neo, It seems that your ranting criticism of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) is based on your assumption that the committee is controlled or manipulated by the west.

is not my assumption...its a fact that such committees are controlled and i didn't say manipulated...i said governed by the guilt ridden mentality of the erstwhile colonial powers

Enlightenment time (to use your favourate word) for an ostrich whose small head and brain (Neo's favourate again) is buried in the sand:

i know chinese are good at copying agra but comeon try to be original...i am sure u can find some words...the only difference between you and the other chinese on this forum is that you can read and write english...well...take one step forward and may be someday you will also be able to comprehend whats written...

The Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination is composed of 18 independent experts who are persons of high moral standing and acknowledged impartiality. Consideration must also be given to equitable geographical distribution and to the representation of the different forms of civilization as well as of the principal legal systems.
CERD monitors implementation of the Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. All States parties, India included, are obliged to submit regular reports to the Committee on how the rights are being implemented.

assumptions on ur part agra? who is elected to these commitees and how? do you know most of these are ex- public servants in their respective countries? since u gave the example of Mr. Pillai...here is an eye opener for you...he was a public servant in india...

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/6/cerd/cv/Pillai.pdf

ur trying to mislead the people on this forum by citing only selective parts of the CERD....you write as if CERD was formed by UN to chide the states it thinks are racially biased...its not...it was formed to come out of the guilt mentality the european powers had due to the mess they created....
of course u need to understand the psycology of world politics to comprehend that....as i said there's a difference between reading and understanding...
the commitee has several vice chairpersons...which incidentally is rotational...i was not rash in saying the committee is governed by west...thats a fact...what kind of influence does burkina faso have in world politics today?
its a very well known ploy by the west...even the UN is shining example...a 50 year old body still without tooth and nail in the general assembly and the all important security council hogged by the 5 based on a war half a decade ago...
so please keep this talk of representation and equality to yourself...the CERD also makes recommendations to the US government on almost the same lines as to india and gets the same reply...in the US laws prohibit racism...in India laws prohibit discrimination based on caste...in fact india goes one step further in providing social reservation for the upliftment of the lower castes..

Neo, open your myopic eyes and see red above: Most of the members are from outside the west and can not be accused of being biased in favour of the west in their opinions on India.

see red? comeon agra...thats ur job...i m not a communist...remember ?
well as i told u...i don't go by what is written on internet and books...i go by what is visible to probing eyes and intellect...once again...i emphasize...learn to comprehend...not just read agra....

An Indian, Mr Pillai, sits on the committee and is its vice chairman. Do you call him an outsider with a big mouth and a small brain (like yours)?

no...because mr pillai wouldn't have given the comments that we saw there...it would have been made by outsiders...most probably chinese...haha..
mr. pillai is not a high caste in case you don't know...and the fact that racial discrimination didn't prevent him from reaching this position speaks for itself the hollowness of ur arguments...

During the recent hearing on India's report last month, Committee members uniformly took issue with the Indian government's refusal to acknowledge that caste-based discrimination is covered by the Convention and is an issue of international human rights concern. Indian delegation resorted to a semantic debate on the difference between caste and race, to no avail, of course, as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh himself already likened last December the practice of untouchability in India to apartheid in South Africa. The CERD regreted the Indian delegation's arrogant rejection of well-documented abuses against Dalits.

its the committee's job to make recommendations and its the government's job to put its perspective...pseudo intellectuals are the same everywhere..they see the world in black and white...the same committee also asked the US government about the seemingly high number of death sentences to blacks. what does that prove? that the US is still racist?

The CERD recommendations to India are worth repeating to knock the message home:

# Introduce mandatory training on the application of India’s Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act for police, judges and prosecutors, and take disciplinary measures against those who fail to implement this law.
# Ensure the protection of witnesses and victims to caste-based crimes and ensure their immediate access to effective remedies.
# Prosecute and punish perpetrators of sexual violence and sexual exploitation of Dalit women, and sanction anyone found preventing or discouraging victims from reporting such incidents, including public officials.
# Eradicate the social acceptance of caste-based discrimination through public education and awareness campaigns.
# Ensure equal access to health care, safe drinking water, and other public services.
# Investigate all alleged cases of discrimination against Dalits in post-tsunami relief and compensate or retroactively grant benefits to victims of such discrimination.
# Take effective measures to reduce dropout rates and increase enrollment rates among Dalits at all levels of schooling by providing scholarships and by ending classroom segregation.
# Ensure proper enforcement of reservations or quotas to counter the under-representation of Dalits and tribal communities in government and public services.
# Adopt measures to enhance Dalits’ access to the labor market, including by extending the reservation policy to the private sector.
# Repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act that, while providing the armed forces with widespread powers to search, arrest and shoot suspects, leading to allegations of human rights abuses, has immunity provisions under which troops cannot be prosecuted unless authorized by the Central Government.

as i see you are too dumb to understand that the points above apply to poor people in india irrespective of castes....as i see ur adamant to admit that the majority of india's poor don't belong to a specific caste and these are the people who need help...
as u urself said...ur just repeating urself....in vain....coz u have nothing to talk about...just rantings based on what you read but don't understand...

Many NGOs considered reputable by many of you guys are calling on India to implement CERD recommendations as soon as possible. The organizations include the Human Rights Watch, the Centre for Human Rights and the Global Justice at New York University School of Law, and the International Dalit Solidarity Network. http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/mar/13dalits.htm)

Drag China in again ?

so the NGO's are reputable again? lolz...what a shining example of chinese double standard you are agra...when i cite amnesty's report on chinese governments human rights abuse they become disreputable and when you side their report they become reputable again???
oh man..u guys know exactly the art of putting ur own foot in ur mouth...lolz..

i don't need to drag in china anywhere agra...the whole world knows how "morally" high and "rights" oriented u chinese are....to hear big words from people like you is laughable...i will not attribute this to your brain or whatever...will just say this...ur uneducated....u know how to read and write but not how to think...

[Agra]

is not my assumption...its a fact that such committees are controlled and i didn't say manipulated...i said governed by the guilt ridden mentality of the erstwhile colonial powers

This is a sweeping description, yet to be proven. Intention to belittle the comittee CERD is obvious.

i know chinese are good at copying agra but comeon try to be original...i am sure u can find some words...the only difference between you and the other chinese on this forum is that you can read and write english...well...take one step forward and may be someday you will also be able to comprehend whats written...

True English is not my mother tongne and I am not ashamed of that. When you run out of real arguments, you start to pick on the language issue. You have every reason to be proud of your English thanks to British colonialism.

assumptions on ur part agra? who is elected to these commitees and how? do you know most of these are ex- public servants in their respective countries? since u gave the example of Mr. Pillai...here is an eye opener for you...he was a public servant in india...

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu2/6/cerd/cv/Pillai.pdf

ur trying to mislead the people on this forum by citing only selective parts of the CERD....you write as if CERD was formed by UN to chide the states it thinks are racially biased...its not...it was formed to come out of the guilt mentality the european powers had due to the mess they created....
of course u need to understand the psycology of world politics to comprehend that....as i said there's a difference between reading and understanding...
the commitee has several vice chairpersons...which incidentally is rotational...i was not rash in saying the committee is governed by west...thats a fact...what kind of influence does burkina faso have in world politics today?
its a very well known ploy by the west...even the UN is shining example...a 50 year old body still without tooth and nail in the general assembly and the all important security council hogged by the 5 based on a war half a decade ago...
so please keep this talk of representation and equality to yourself...the CERD also makes recommendations to the US government on almost the same lines as to india and gets the same reply...in the US laws prohibit racism...in India laws prohibit discrimination based on caste...in fact india goes one step further in providing social reservation for the upliftment of the lower castes..
no...because mr pillai wouldn't have given the comments that we saw there...it would have been made by outsiders...most probably chinese...haha..
mr. pillai is not a high caste in case you don't know...and the fact that racial discrimination didn't prevent him from reaching this position speaks for itself the hollowness of ur arguments...

CERD’s membership consists not of political appointees, but elected independent experts who serve in their personal capacities. For example, the US member of CERD was chief of the civil rights division of the Department of Justice, and thus had been in charge of all civil rights law enforcement in the US. Pillai headed India’s National Human Rights Commission. The British member is an eminent international human rights law academic. Dispite different backgournds, the committee members uniformly took issue with Indian government on the issue of caste discrimination.

No matter how hard you try to belittle CERD, its authority and credibily will not diminish. If you think the body is a ploy of the West, then why should India be so stupid as to accede to the Convention on the eliminination of racial discrimination in the first place? The recommendations made to India show something is wrong with Indian society and are a wake-up call to Neo.

its the committee's job to make recommendations and its the government's job to put its perspective...pseudo intellectuals are the same everywhere..they see the world in black and white...the same committee also asked the US government about the seemingly high number of death sentences to blacks. what does that prove? that the US is still racist?

as i see you are too dumb to understand that the points above apply to poor people in india irrespective of castes....as i see ur adamant to admit that the majority of india's poor don't belong to a specific caste and these are the people who need help...
as u urself said...ur just repeating urself....in vain....coz u have nothing to talk about...just rantings based on what you read but don't understand...
so the NGO's are reputable again? lolz...what a shining example of chinese double standard you are agra...when i cite amnesty's report on chinese governments human rights abuse they become disreputable and when you side their report they become reputable again???
oh man..u guys know exactly the art of putting ur own foot in ur mouth...lolz..

i don't need to drag in china anywhere agra...the whole world knows how "morally" high and "rights" oriented u chinese are....to hear big words from people like you is laughable...i will not attribute this to your brain or whatever...will just say this...ur uneducated....u know how to read and write but not how to think...

You love englightening people, reinforcing the popular belief that Indians are good at talking but not at action.

In short, you reject existance of caste discrimination and oppression in India. What happens is discrimination against and oppression of the poor as a whole in India. Right?

This can be one way of looking at the things. However you can not prevent many insiders from disagreeing with you and from complaining to the outsiders about caste discrimination and oppresion they have suffered in Indian society.

The caste problem will haunt you as long as your head stays in the sand.

-------------
P.S. I have stopped copying Neo in the use of abusive words (big mouth, small brains, dumb etc), because he is second to none in using them and has a proven record of going very low in order to get even.

[Neo]

True English is not my mother tongne and I am not ashamed of that. When you run out of real arguments, you start to pick on the language issue. You have every reason to be proud of your English thanks to British colonialism.

no agra, u again didn't understand..ur english is very good...probably better than mine...what u lack is the power to understand...has nothing to do with language...probably u wd read the same thing in chinese and understand nothing...i m not proud of my english...trust me i wd write in hindi if the forum was supporting unicode hindi characters....i m more proud of my hindi and resent english than u know...but as usual u didn't understand what i wrote in english....u merely read it...proving exactly the point i was making

CERD’s membership consists not of political appointees, but elected independent experts who serve in their personal capacities. For example, the US member of CERD was chief of the civil rights division of the Department of Justice, and thus had been in charge of all civil rights law enforcement in the US. Pillai headed India’s National Human Rights Commission. The British member is an eminent international human rights law academic. Dispite different backgournds, the committee members uniformly took issue with Indian government on the issue of caste discrimination.

do u know how the diplomats are elected to UN? they are all "bright" members of the public services of their respective countries. its plain common sense agra...CERD doesn't hold elections all over the world to elect its members...it requests the countries which are bound by the statute to provide a nomineed to the committee...from these representatives every 2 years chairpersons are elected... this committee is no different than any other committee formed at the UN....and if u think that God represents any of these than as i said earlier...wake up ...

No matter how hard you try to belittle CERD, its authority and credibily will not diminish. If you think the body is a ploy of the West, then why should India be so stupid as to accede to the Convention on the eliminination of racial discrimination in the first place? The recommendations made to India show something is wrong with Indian society and are a wake-up call to Neo.

very simple...why did all the countries of the world including Iraq took up membership of the UN? no one wants to be isolated...and it doesn't harm to be part of a committee without teeth and nail....the committee will come back with its findings every year saying US, India, China and 100 other countries are racist and the government would do something about it coz its their job....if tomorrow they said ...all's well in this world the committee would cease to exist....the committee is right on its own to recommend more positive steps but if it takes the tasks of just criticism without highlighting the social initiatives of the respective governments, it will get what it deserves...the US rejected its recommendations, so did india....simple..

You love englightening people, reinforcing the popular belief that Indians are good at talking but not at action.

popular beliefs are just that popular...nothing else...i am sure 20 years ago the popular belief all over the world was that china is a communist country where people suffer and is doomed....that didn't prevent china from transforming itself did it? so i ll let people who refuse to be enlightened remain with popular beliefs

In short, you reject existance of caste discrimination and oppression in India. What happens is discrimination against and oppression of the poor as a whole in India. Right?

This can be one way of looking at the things. However you can not prevent many insiders from disagreeing with you and from complaining to the outsiders about caste discrimination and oppresion they have suffered in Indian society.

I don't reject caste discrimination or oppression. I reject this being called racism. I will tell you whats the most prominent aspect of this caste discrimination you are talking about....its not to do with higher castes beating the lower castes or not letting them take water from a public well as it used to be during british times...now its more of a social narrow mindness...a higher caste boy marries a girl from a higher caste to fulfill the wishes of his family and likewise with the lower castes....
a intercaste marriage is still an exception than rule in india....and thats what is really preventing the integration of indian society...
i am a so called high caste "brahmin" myself but my best friend from college times is a so called "backward" caste and still there's a bond between us that has grown stronger over the last several years....
this is what makes me ridicule the outsiders who talk about discrimination based on caste...if there was discrimination...my friend would not have been able to make it to where he is today....successfull and progressive at a rapid pace...nor did me being a high caste help me in any way in achieving what i have...

-------------
P.S. I have stopped copying Neo in the use of abusive words (big mouth, small brains, dumb etc), because he is second to none in using them and has a proven record of going very low in order to get even.

[/QUOTE]

oh thank u so much agra...first of all i was referring to the guys who made the recommendations on CERD about caste system as dumb and small brain but as i said u just read and jump to write so in ur hurry u thought i was abusing u and u replied back with ostrich and all that nice stuff...
i am no saint...i reply tit for tat....i agree....

[rohit khaitan]

The UN link I gave about India's compliance with Convention against racism is a credible source. You overstretched yourself by claiming that ALL links are credible.

So i believe you are the authority to decide on which is the credible source and which is not??? You can live happily with ur self proclaimed authority.
Like i said you conveniently change ur opinion if it suits ur purpose. So it didnt come as a surprise to anyone of us here.

You are being very modest by describing rampant caste discrimination, if not oppression, as stray incidents in India.

Rampant discrimination??? Excuse me. You havent prooved it yet. You are just ranting it. But thanks for calling me modest. You are not even being modest enough to accept chinese racism in tibet, east turkistan and ujghur.

I am still waiting for a convincing reply from you guys to the UN recommendations to Indian government on combating racism.

We r still waiting for a convincing reply from u on Amnesty internationals recommendations to Chinese.

It is Neo who threw up dirt on China at the sight of my reply in disregard of the topic of the thread. Blame Neo for that. Let's focus on the topic of this thread: Are Indians racist?

So you dont want to discuss china after all. Why?? Does it hurt if someone shows u the mirror? If u r chinese freinds can post so many threads on shanghai and beijing which has nothing to do with this site. Why cant we post racism in China which is absolutely relevant to the topic??? You didnt oppose our comments on racism in US, UK, South Africa. But the moment we name China u say its not relevant. See there .. u changed ur opinion again.

[Agra]

do u know how the diplomats are elected to UN? they are all "bright" members of the public services of their respective countries. its plain common sense agra...CERD doesn't hold elections all over the world to elect its members...it requests the countries which are bound by the statute to provide a nomineed to the committee...from these representatives every 2 years chairpersons are elected... this committee is no different than any other committee formed at the UN....and if u think that God represents any of these than as i said earlier...wake up ...

very simple...why did all the countries of the world including Iraq took up membership of the UN? no one wants to be isolated...and it doesn't harm to be part of a committee without teeth and nail....the committee will come back with its findings every year saying US, India, China and 100 other countries are racist and the government would do something about it coz its their job....if tomorrow they said ...all's well in this world the committee would cease to exist....the committee is right on its own to recommend more positive steps but if it takes the tasks of just criticism without highlighting the social initiatives of the respective governments, it will get what it deserves...the US rejected its recommendations, so did india....simple..

Your challenge to the qualification of people forming UN bodies is cynical and overstreched. CERD has a respectable membership and does a respectable job in praising and critisizing countries. Its recommendations carry a lot of moral weight. When it hammers India on the issue of caste, it really hurts. Your reaction so far is proof. Of course, people choose to ignore them for one reason of another.

I don't reject caste discrimination or oppression. I reject this being called racism. I will tell you whats the most prominent aspect of this caste discrimination you are talking about....its not to do with higher castes beating the lower castes or not letting them take water from a public well as it used to be during british times...now its more of a social narrow mindness...a higher caste boy marries a girl from a higher caste to fulfill the wishes of his family and likewise with the lower castes....
a intercaste marriage is still an exception than rule in india....and thats what is really preventing the integration of indian society...
i am a so called high caste "brahmin" myself but my best friend from college times is a so called "backward" caste and still there's a bond between us that has grown stronger over the last several years....
this is what makes me ridicule the outsiders who talk about discrimination based on caste...if there was discrimination...my friend would not have been able to make it to where he is today....successfull and progressive at a rapid pace...nor did me being a high caste help me in any way in achieving what i have...

Hmm, this part of your talk of narrow-mindedness makes sense. The caste discrimination did not become "racism" until the convention on eliminiatoin of racial discriminaiont came along. The debate between India and CERD will continue on it.

You gave a good example of a friend from backward caste. It may be more an exception than a rule, I guess. Your statement will be more convincing if uttered/shared by lower caste people.

Neo, I have been talking to a distinguished brahmin. What an honour and what a revelation. Small wonder that traffic accident should have happened the other day.

rohit khaitan, As I said already, this thread is about Indians being racist or not. if you are really interested in China, pls start a new thread.

[Neo]

Your challenge to the qualification of people forming UN bodies is cynical and overstreched. CERD has a respectable membership and does a respectable job in praising and critisizing countries. Its recommendations carry a lot of moral weight. When it hammers India on the issue of caste, it really hurts. Your reaction so far is proof. Of course, people choose to ignore them for one reason of another.

i differ that these recommendations carry lot of moral weight...i don't think the west has any idea of what the east is culturally and socially...they apply the same parameters of judgement to social strata here as they apply to the west....its like saying...we set the parameters...now lets judge u on that...i think thats bullshit...

Hmm, this part of your talk of narrow-mindedness makes sense. The caste discrimination did not become "racism" until the convention on eliminiatoin of racial discriminaiont came along. The debate between India and CERD will continue on it.

exactly...the west had one parameter to label everything...even things they didn't understand....casteism was a scourge of hinduism only when its true purpose was lost under islamic invasion...we have stories in our sacred scriptures of lord Ram eating berries tasted to be sweet by a lower caste poor woman called shabri who was his hostess during his wanderings in the forest during his 14 year exile...hinduism has had several other vices...like child marriages and the practices of yound widowes being burned alive with the bodies of their husbands...these were changed...and not by the west but by distinguished social reformers from india like raja rammohan roy....
hence when CERD blatantly labels casteism as racism it ignores the social steps being taken by indian government and no social initiative can succeed without public consent....

You gave a good example of a friend from backward caste. It may be more an exception than a rule, I guess. Your statement will be more convincing if uttered/shared by lower caste people.

i don't think their are any "lower" caste people...and i don't believe i am a "high" caste....i don't think caste system would have any other connotation than a community like the mandarian, tibetans and the like in the coming years...

Neo, I have been talking to a distinguished brahmin. What an honour and what a revelation. Small wonder that traffic accident should have happened the other day.

i was born in a brahmin family...yes...i can not change that....but i don't believe i have any "higher" status because of that and i have no problem in saying that i think a so called "lower" caste person who is righteous, hard working and honest is 100 times "higher" than a corrupt, lazy or bigot high caste brahmin....

[rohit khaitan]

Agra now since u enjoy talking racism in India. Likewise i also want to have my share of fun by exposing the hollowness of ur country.
(If at all you are a chinese)

Now will u kindly let me post it sir??? Since u decide which is a credible organisation and site and which is not. And what we can post here and
what we cant. I seek u r permission gentlman.

[Agra]

Agra now since u enjoy talking racism in India. Likewise i also want to have my share of fun by exposing the hollowness of ur country.
(If at all you are a chinese)

Now will u kindly let me post it sir??? Since u decide which is a credible organisation and site and which is not. And what we can post here and
what we cant. I seek u r permission gentlman.

It is amusing to see such a humble gesture from someone who is ready to advise psychiatry to others.

You have been ignored. So out of frustration you are making a scene.

I repeat one more time for your stubborn head: Start a new thread and have your fun in using whatever source to prove how hollow China is. I will not be as jumpy as you have been about India's casteism, though.