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  • India struggles to catch China (BBC news)

    The gap between India and China is just like the gap between China and U.S
    ----------------------------------
    By Rupert Wingfield-Hayes
    BBC News, Delhi and Beijing

    The rapid growth of the Indian and Chinese economies have transformed the two countries in recent years. But this prosperity has also brought other problems.


    Heavy investment has turned Beijing into a modern city
    I think it was in 2003, that the world suddenly woke up to China.

    I am not sure what caused it to happen, what particular event or news story. I just remembered the phone in the BBC's Beijing Bureau started ringing and it has not stopped since.

    Well now it is happening again and this time it is not China, it is India.

    Every time you turn on the television or pick up a magazine, it is no longer the rise of China, it is now the rise of China and India.

    The desire to make comparisons is understandable. Both have more than a billion people. Both are growing at 10% a year.


    Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city

    There are, I suspect, many who are hoping that India, with its freedom and democracy, will win this new race to become the next economic super power. I am not so sure.

    I have spent the last eight years living in Beijing, and only four days in Delhi, so comparisons are difficult.

    But the few days I recently spent in India made me look at China in a new light.


    'Shocking experience'


    Over 15 million people live in Delhi
    Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city.

    The streets groan under the weight of people. The air is filled with deafening noise and sumptuous smells.

    Switch on the television and it is the same.

    Between channels blasting out voluptuous Bollywood love stories and pop videos, an endless stream of news channels dissect the latest political scandals, and debauched lifestyles of the rich and famous.

    Coming from China it is an almost shocking experience.

    But after the initial delight at being in an open society, I started to notice other things.

    Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment; locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting

    The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one.

    Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.

    I lay for hours soaked in sweat trying, and failing, to get back to sleep and wishing I was back in Beijing where the lights never go out.

    But getting back would not be easy.

    Passenger queues

    I looked at my plane ticket. Departure time 0315. Surely that could not be right.

    I called the front desk. "That's correct sir," he said, "the airport is too small so many flights from Delhi leave in the middle of the night."

    He was not joking.

    My taxi struggled along the Jaipur road towards the airport.

    The two-lane road was clogged by an endless convoy of lorries. Finally I arrived at Indira Gandhi International airport. Despite the hour it was teeming with people.

    The queues snaked around the airport and back to where they had started.

    Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment. Locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting.

    I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work

    "Is it always like this?" I asked a man in the queue ahead of me.

    "Pretty much," he sighed.

    I was finally shepherded aboard the flight to Shanghai.

    Next to me sat a friendly looking Indian man in shorts and running shoes.

    "Is this your first trip to China?" he asked me.

    "No," I replied, "I live there."

    "Really," he said, his interest piqued, "what should I expect?"

    "I think," I said, "you should expect to be surprised."

    Jaw dropping

    Six hours later, our plane taxied to a halt in front of the soaring glass and steel of Shanghai's Pudong International Airport.



    In Delhi I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own

    As we emerged into the cool silence of the ultra-modern terminal, my new companion's jaw slid towards his belly button.

    "I was not expecting this," he said, his eyes wide in wonder. "Oh no, I definitely was not expecting this".

    I also found myself looking at China afresh.

    Later that day as I drove home from Beijing airport along the smooth six-lane highway I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work.

    And it was not just the airports and roads.

    Driving through a village on the edge of Beijing I was struck by how well everyone was dressed.

    In Delhi, I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own. Even deep in China's countryside that is not something you will see.

    In Delhi I had been told of the wonders of India's new economy, of the tens of thousands of bright young graduates churning out the world's latest computer software.

    I thought of China's new economy, of the tens of millions of rural migrants who slave away in factories, making everything from plimsolls to plasma televisions.

    And of the same rural migrants, heading home to their villages at Chinese New Year festival loaded down with gifts, their pockets stuffed full of cash.

    China is not a free society, and it has immense problems. But its successes should not be underestimated.

    They are ones that India, even with its open and democratic society, is still far from matching.

  • #2
    i admit china has been developing and hasn't yet stopped, but can u tell me what problems do u have in ur society that is not there in ours??

    in our country we have the problems of terrorism from pakistan, wars by pakistan and bangladesh, illegal immigration of bangladeshis and pakis, the terrorist attacks induces communal riots and insurgency. then terrorists from other parts of the world that also despise india. then we got the corrupt democracy, and then bribery among the officials and lots of petty thefts unnoticed. and much more which doesn't come to my memory yet.

    so can u tell me what problems u face in the modern china. and despite all the problems india has succeeded in keeping up with u in the path of technology and has at the same time tried to look to all the problems and satisfy all the needs of the nation.

    india has succeeded in making the fastest missile [ supersonic ] - Brahmos missile [thanks soumo for the info] which none of the "developed" countries have done so.

    and delhi is crowded all right. but please try other cities and five star hotels for not all the hotels in india are '5 star' okay? it depends on where this moron went to.
    miqsh
    EVERY CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING

    Comment


    • #3
      I also admit China is developing and is really growing fast. China has been building skycrapers and everything possible in the world and has never stopped. China did develop.

      Yeah and I also admit that things are way worse in India. But can you tell me that when India started developing. See the amount of recognition China earned in 2000 and how much it started to develop in 2000, India didn't start that yet. India hasn't started all out.

      I don't think India can ever go at a pace China did.

      Thanks to miqsh for saying all the problems but you want to know why.

      India's railway station in Mumbai, blown up by terrorist. India has to build it again from the begining.
      India's parliament was attacked, Everyday Indian authorities and busy preventing more then 20 terrorist attacks each day and trying to save people and stop hundreds of communal riots all over India so that people don't die.

      When do they have time to build stupid skyscrapers. China is lucky that they are not surrounded by stupid countries as we are. We got refugees coming in all the time from all the place. Pathans from west, Sri lankans from south, bangladeshis from east and Tibetians from north.

      Plus we have continous international pressure and barely any support from any country. Yeah the fastest missile were developed by us. Not even US has that kinda missile. The same missile can be used in ariplace, navy and army.

      India has been developing in different areas more. Space, military, software, manufacturing etc. The thing which India didn't develop in is infrastructure.

      Infrastructure is the thing which is noticed by most people. And infrastructure is the thing India deosn't have. YOu have gone through narrow roads but India is more concentrated in connecting the whole country and that's why there are 8 laned roads connecting whole India. I bet you haven't used the new national highways.

      Common India has just started and they cannot go at a pace at which China is going because of all the problems. And let me mention another problem. Democracy. It has its disadvantages too. Too many protests from people. Like India was supposed to launch its spacecraft to moon a month ago but people did processions and strikes saying that don't spend money on these stupid stuffs and first do other important stuffs.

      They don't realise that once they get uranium from moon there will be no power cuts too. People did strikes and riots when Indian prime minister introduced computer to India. THey said that this would cause in less jobs.

      See you see this kinda problems. I bet all these doesn't exist in ur country.

      Comment


      • #4
        The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one.

        Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.
        I don't know which hotel this guy stayed in. Certainly doesn't sound like an "expensive hotel" to me unless he was swindled. I live in a middle-class apartment in Delhi which has 24x7 power back-up and a high-speed internet connection. Certainly I would expect an expensive hotel to have much more than this considering my humble self has never stayed in an expensive hotel in my life!

        My taxi struggled along the Jaipur road towards the airport.

        The two-lane road was clogged by an endless convoy of lorries. Finally I arrived at Indira Gandhi International airport. Despite the hour it was teeming with people.
        That road may not be a 6 lane wonder but it's one of the loveliest roads I've seen and it still has work in progress all around it. I like traveling on it. I wonder what great traffic this fellow faced there at midnight. Lorries would be zipping on it at midnight and not creating a traffic jam.

        That said, China is ahead of India in terms of development but it's an exaggeration to say the gap between China and India is the same as between the US and China I think. And frankly what does it matter if China is growing at the pace it is and India at the pace it is. As I've said before it's just another news story for the Westerners to make it appear like there's a race between India and China. China has developed so much with such good looking cities, amazing for China, congrats. Let's not care about these comparisons by bored news agencies who just look for things to write and let's wish all the countries of the world lead a good quality of life.
        Last edited by observer; 07-27-2006, 04:10 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          HE HE HE,

          He's talking about Delhi, when all the while he was in Jaipur.

          Better he went back to China

          Cheers

          Comment


          • #6
            Chinese version

            This is the link to the discussion on this article's Chinese version. It's a extremly hot topic. Pity you guys can't read Chinese.

            Comment


            • #7
              So what do they say in this discussion. I really want to know.

              as I have said people go around insulting India and looking at their bad points. So what if we failed to launch a rocket. We have launched more the 60 in the past and we learn from our failures. Atleast we are trying and are fully capable of launching it and are among the elite 6 countries who has this kinda capabilities.

              I agree that infrastructure is really bad in India. We are slow in developing it .But with all the problems we will develop slowly hopefully.

              Yeah i was confused too. Why did he suddenly mentioned jaipur which is far away from Delhi.

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually Jaipur road may be the national highway-8 which while running through Delhi takes one to the IGI airport here. It also connects Delhi to Jaipur and that's why may be called Jaipur road. But it's a pretty nice road and most Indians would love it. Only some nose-held high Britisher like this BBC reporter would whine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is that road a narrow road or has more then 2 lanes. If it has more then 2 lanes then there's no reason to complain that its narrow.

                  And is it very congested.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by India1989
                    So what do they say in this discussion. I really want to know.
                    lol.....Don't you think it is crap?
                    I have no interest to translate more!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Miqsh and India1989

                      I'm a first timer here.

                      First of all, I've seen some of the insulting remarks toward India made by some idiot claiming to be Chinese. You know there are idiots in every nation, not to mention that I am kinda suspicious about their real nationality. You know outside the PRC-controlled terroritory there are hundreds of millions of people fluent in CHinese, including the whole population of Taiwan, Singapore, about a third of Malaysia, a huge chunk of Indonesia, Phillippines, quite a lot of people in Japan and Korea, and people scattered around the world.

                      Miqsh you asked an interesting question about China.

                      In China, we share a lot of the social and political problems India has been suffering. On the terrorism front, Muslim separatists from western China commit bus bombings and other terrorist attacks once in a while in Beijing and other cities. In Urumuqi, the capital city of Xijiang autonomous territory, terrorism has been a constant threat. Despite this, Urumuqi has enjoyed a long and sustained booming economy, which benefit people of all ethnic groups. I grew up in a major city in central-western China, where roughly 1/3 of the population are muslims. In my memory racial and religious tension has been intense from time to time.

                      I distinctly remember, when I was in elementary school, the Muslim community leader issued a Fatwa (authorization to kill) against an author of a book depicting Muslim life in China. This is an event very similar to the Fatwa issued against Rushdie, which outraged the entire civilized world. But due to the media control exercised in China, these issues related to separatism/terrorism were very rarely known to the outside world, until recently.

                      On the strategic front, China has the agonizing issue of Taiwan. This is not only a national or regional issue, but a global strategic issue, since both the US and Japan are enormously invested in Taiwan's future. In the mind of many Chinese I know, this has been the biggest strategic and political issue for the last half century, and promises to be so for the next few decades.

                      The Taiwan issue is also convoluted with the already problematic diplomatic relationship with Japan, a global economic power house and a regional military super power. Historical issues and sovereignty claims over the western Pacific have strained the Sino-Japan ties tremendously in the last decade and continues to be a flash point. Both sides have rattled sabers a few times recently.

                      North Korea is another destablizing factor that China has to contain and control. In recent years China has worked extremely hard to act as a bridge between the DPRK and the rest of the world, in order to avoid war and destruction. Besides, China has absorbed a large refugee population who have escaped the collapsed economy of DPRK.

                      Economically, China faces almost identical issues with India. A vast and poor population, limited resources, very poor infrastructure to start with.

                      Culturally, both countries have been colonized by western powers, both have long and splendid culture and history. We even share some religious philosophies. The other side of the token is, we both have inherited traditions and cultures which can get in the way of modernization at times. I have read in Indian newspapers that Indian villagers sometimes kill new born girls. Sadly the same savage practice also exist in China.

                      Along with our fast economical development, we have also found ourselves confronted with new problems: pollution at an alarming rate, crowded cities, bi-polarization of the wealthy and the poor, bi-polarization of the industrial and agricultural sectors, wide-spread corruption, a political system which at times finds itself at odds with the market economy, aging of the population, lack of social security and health care system, etc.

                      I am an engineer by trade, not an expert of sociology and don't claim to be one. The above is just my layman's observations.

                      Originally posted by miqsh
                      i admit china has been developing and hasn't yet stopped, but can u tell me what problems do u have in ur society that is not there in ours??

                      in our country we have the problems of terrorism from pakistan, wars by pakistan and bangladesh, illegal immigration of bangladeshis and pakis, the terrorist attacks induces communal riots and insurgency. then terrorists from other parts of the world that also despise india. then we got the corrupt democracy, and then bribery among the officials and lots of petty thefts unnoticed. and much more which doesn't come to my memory yet.

                      so can u tell me what problems u face in the modern china. and despite all the problems india has succeeded in keeping up with u in the path of technology and has at the same time tried to look to all the problems and satisfy all the needs of the nation.

                      india has succeeded in making the fastest missile [ supersonic ] - Brahmos missile [thanks soumo for the info] which none of the "developed" countries have done so.

                      and delhi is crowded all right. but please try other cities and five star hotels for not all the hotels in india are '5 star' okay? it depends on where this moron went to.
                      Last edited by inkink; 07-29-2006, 01:27 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Is that road a narrow road or has more then 2 lanes. If it has more then 2 lanes then there's no reason to complain that its narrow.

                        And is it very congested.
                        I find it to be one of the nicest roads in Delhi and Delhi has pretty nice roads for anywhere in India I think. It's definitely not narrow or congested and it is a 4 lane road. It's very smooth, not potholed, and a pleasure to travel on. And there's a lot of development work going on there to make the place even more prettier.
                        Last edited by observer; 07-29-2006, 11:59 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          to inkink,
                          thanks for answering my question. i see that u are also having lots of problems within the country. maybe india would have comparatively lesser problems if ours was a communist government. pollution has been and will be a major part of our lives. so what do u suggest that would be a step to limit these problems as much as possible.
                          and can u clarify if the chinese are giving their support to pakistan for its terrorist activities??
                          miqsh
                          EVERY CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=inkink]Along with our fast economical development, we have also found ourselves confronted with new problems: pollution at an alarming rate, crowded cities, bi-polarization of the wealthy and the poor, bi-polarization of the industrial and agricultural sectors, wide-spread corruption, a political system which at times finds itself at odds with the market economy, aging of the population, lack of social security and health care system, etc.

                            [QUOTE]

                            My friend you just described the problem India faces as well. Apart from the ageing population, India and China faces the exact same problems.
                            I am shocked to know that even China faces Islamic terrorism even though they are pro-islamic(atleast they have no conflicts with any Islamic state).

                            Can you please elaborate what the reasons for the communal unrest.
                            Is it because they aren't allowed to practice their religious belief(since China is Communist state) or is it because of some other reasons.Are you'll still facing these problems?
                            Also what are your views on Islamic terrorism and do you believe they are freedom fighters like many Chinese on this board believe?

                            If you have any questions about India do ask me .

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Freedom fighters? no way the concept is wrong. More like "destructive forces" to put an end in every religion except for islam. Well dunno know much about it though to give you a convincing argument but surely if there are terrorists in a region it means economic, political and not to mention environmental instability which the blown up terrorists can't pay for instead the responsibility goes to you guys that are the residences.

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