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  • An Indian thumb up to his Chinese counterpart.

    Indian officers were invited to observe a military exercise in China in 2006.




    Indian officer (J P Singh) gave a thumb-up to his Chinese counterpart.

    (环球杂志 2006年第6期)



    Indian officer assisting his Chinese counterpart in fence mending.


    The feeling is mutual.



    请勿使用粗话。
    Last edited by Agra; 02-15-2007, 02:48 AM.

  • #2
    Why no response? Stunned?
    怎么没人说话?
    阿三傻了吧。

    Comment


    • #3
      What's there to be stunned. We often see cordial photos of Indian and Chinese military personnel and political leaders in TV and newspapers. That's why I used to think 1962 is past and nowadays Chinese and Indians have warm feelings for eachother. But unfortunately I've mostly seen Chinese being very rude towards Indians on the internet since last year. Don't know what it's about. Maybe they are government agents with some agenda posing as common Chinese people.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the Chinese visitors here are on their own.

        I am curious about how ordinary Indians were (are?) led to believe what caused the unfortunate 1962 event.

        The Chinese government was secretive in many of its foreign dealings, too. I have read a few books/articles by foreign authors who seem to conclude that China was not to blame for the start of 1962 war.

        China was for a long time seen as unreliable, back stabbing as a result of 1962, in short, a bad image among the Indian public. Is this still the popular belief in India?

        When India is mentioned in China, it evokes Buddhism, Tai Ge Er (Indian poet in Chinese transliteration) and its IT. Good to see increasing exchanges between two countries.

        I would be grateful if people can talk calmly on this thread.

        Comment


        • #5
          stunned???
          this is funny...we should be stunned by a indian officers pat on the back to china?? come on
          i have seen one thing in chinese around here....they believe they can impress people with showcasing some images...be it buildings from cities, armed forces or god knows what else...
          these things don't work dude...there's nothing amazing about all this...i understand that the skyline of shanghai or ghonghau is a matter of pride for you because it gives u a sense of development....but trust me ...to the rest of us who are not chinese...these things mean nothing...we are not at all impressed.....we know how a developed nation looks...and we have nothing against china's attempts at being developed...
          that's why i say the chinese attempts at showcasing these things is like the attempts of a newly rich beggar wearing 100 kg gold for people to see...
          if chinese want to discuss like educated person...they should come out of this ...anti---everything not chinese---attitude u guys have....
          I 'll show u a new world!

          Comment


          • #6
            The pictures of skyscrapers can be brushed aside as kid's stuff.

            The picutre of the Indian officer was taken from a Chinese magazine Gloabe. It carried interesting analysis of Sino-Indian relations. One of the articles concluded that Indian military has almost reversed its perception of China and is more cooperative than other arms of the Indian government over border issues, thanks in no small part to the negative precedent of Nehru over the border issue..

            Neo, do you believe China was/is a backstabber in its relations with India?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Agra
              The pictures of skyscrapers can be brushed aside as kid's stuff.

              The picutre of the Indian officer was taken from a Chinese magazine Gloabe. It carried interesting analysis of Sino-Indian relations. One of the articles concluded that Indian military has almost reversed its perception of China and is more cooperative than other arms of the Indian government over border issues, thanks in no small part to the negative precedent of Nehru over the border issue..

              Neo, do you believe China was/is a backstabber in its relations with India?
              first of all let me ask u this...what is ur definition of cooperation on border issue? what according to u is a solution to the border issue between india and china.
              as for the indian military..their founding principles are different than the chinese counterparts...they are under the governance of a civilian government and at best offer strategic opinion in matters...policy matters are still the prerogative of the cabinet...
              the border in NE is a point of continious interaction between the chinese and military forces and its quite obvious that they share cordial relations...we hear a lot of each party inviting the other to share festivities...but that's not the point here...
              if tomorrow a war breaks out between india and china over border issue...these people will have to shoot each other...and they will...trust me
              nationalism is still above humanity or friendship...thats a fact of life..

              as for my opinion about china in the past and present...first of all let me say this...i have heard a lot of chinese including u say that 1962 war was started by india...well...thats an excuse...
              it is true that indian forces went past the accepted border lines in some areas to mark advance observation posts but by all means...any one who calls this an invasion of china by india is either brainwashed by chinese propaganda or biased...at best it was a human error in small pockets...
              china used this as an excuse to launch a massive attack...the tactics was to capture territories under india's control which china never accepted as india's.
              china acted in its national interest and captured areas strategically important for it...
              indians consider this backstabbing because two years ago the chinese were part of the slogan ...hindi-chini bhai bhai...or indians and chinese are brothers....the encroachment of indian forces on some chinese areas could have been resolved by localised war and taking back of chinese territories but deep within was the hidden agenda of chinese government...
              they never conceded some areas as indian territory as marked by McMohan line and used 1962 as the opportunity to capture as much as possible..
              so yes i do consider this back stabbing by china in 1962 because it was not self defence...it was chinese strategy to capture areas which they claim chinese....
              if u truly believe that 1962 was an act in self defence by china...ur either brainwashed or biased...please admit that it was an excuse exploited by china to capture strategically important areas...

              as for present...well it has been 45 years since 1962 and i would rather look forward to how the relationship between china and india develops....china has enough land areas and so has india....if both countries agree mutually to accept each others territorial positions and move towards development...nothing better than that...

              the common perception in india towards china is wait and watch....let me put it as a cautious approach.....it will take at least 50 years to bring back cordial relations between the two countries provided this period is devoid of conflict or war and mutual cooperation....
              we in india are not sure about china's motive and plans about arunachal pradesh...so i would say we are catious....we believe the border issue should be resolved amicably but one thing is for sure...any solution would have to accept one basic condition....

              there will not be any major changes in the boundaries as they exist today....
              if the chinese can live peacefully with that...the future is good for both countries...if not...we will see...what future has in store

              i just hope the hard work of both the nations is not wasted in a disastrous war again...
              I 'll show u a new world!

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you for sharing your views on the cause of 1962 in a calm manner. I am always curious about Indians' view on that war.

                By cooperation I mean two sides interact in a pragmatic way, not influenced by blind nationalism. Indian military was reluctant to carry out a reckless forward policy ordered by Indian civilian governemnt in the events leading up to 1962.

                Any previous governments of China had never recognized illegal MacMAhon line. The areas around the line are disputed areas. Nevertheless China took a realistic approach in respecting this line. China, on that basis, solved border issues with Burma and Nepal in an amical manner before 1962 but were not able to do the same with India.

                Regarding the human error you mentioned as the cause of the 1962, India, or rather Mr Nehru, from the outset adopted a policy of effecting control of whatever territories claimed by India regardless of the disputed nature of the territories in question. Whatever under my control was mine and whatever under your control was negotiable. He believed the Chinese would never respond with military force. When challenged by his own military which pointed out that some Indian claimed territories (e.g. incidents of Migyitun and Galwan) were well beyond MacMahon line and were Chinese (and Nepalese in one case) even on Indian maps, Nehru simply ordered the military to go ahead with setting up new posts and running patrols on quite a large scale, not small pockets, along the borer line. Nehru even changed his order to the military from "fire only if fired upon" to "fire if the Chinese press dangerously close to your positions." It was a deliberate act of aggression in the eyes of China whose repeated warnings had been ignored by Nehru. It was no human error. Small wonder that skirmishes should happen and escalate into war. I do not think it is fair to call China a back stabber on that account. Lack of support of Non-aligned movement for India at that time speaks for itself.

                As to brainwashing, yes, the Chinese political system uses it a lot.
                If the Chinese version of the events leading up to 1962 were not credible, many foreign scholars shared the views of China that India went too far and was to blame for the war. Mr Nehru succeeded in misleading the parliment and the general public. He played double talk skillfully in the whole process. The western countries took the side of India whatever happened between India and China at that time (Cold War, Red Scare). The inquiry report prepared by the Indian Defence in the aftermath of 1962 was never released even today. My understanding is that, although a democracy, Indian public have been brainwashed on the 1962 war because of nationalism.

                There exists the basis on which two countries can negotiate a solution to the border issue. I do not foresee any likelyhood of war between India and China. Development in peacful enviriment is more important than anything else.
                By the way, whatever outcome solution to be produced by negotiations will alway anger some extremists in both countries. That's life.

                It is good that we can engage in a calm discussion about the sensitive issue of the cause of 1962.

                Comment


                • #9
                  it's good to know that there is some normal chinese person on this forum...unfortunately with the likes of datang, torabera, snower and others here the impression created of chinese is that of teenagers who have no clue of history and no perspective of world affairs...its almost like they only recited CHINA CHINA CHINA...all through their school...

                  it's just to piss these guys off that i have to stoop so low on some of the threads....these guys simply don't deserve any respect....how can u have a discussion with someone who is incompetent...
                  but that makes sense...every country has a small percentage of its population that work hard, are smart and help in the development of their nation and the majority are just ordinary people with nothing to contribute but their big mouth...

                  what i expect from educated chinese like you is to criticise your countrymen who do nothing but write filth on this forum...getting back the same in return...

                  then we can return to normal discussion and have a frank and open talk...after all people to people interaction is the first step in building trust between nations...

                  do u mind me asking what is ur profession? u seem to be well educated and reasonable in ur arguments unlike most of the chinese on this forum....i hope there are more like u in china...pity such a great culture now produces idiots like i have seen here....

                  i don't see any reason for so much animosity between india and china...i would understand the hatred between china and japan but between us...there's no reason...we had 3 wars with pakistan and we still are on better talking terms with them than china....its a pity one small war ruined so much between 2 great cultures...
                  I 'll show u a new world!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by torabera
                    good, Mr. Neo now knows it is india who actually did back stabbing (because of the great "stuipd PM Nehru" etc.),
                    all other indians hould know this,
                    as I said many times, there is no reason for india and china to be enemies
                    to each other,
                    fighting between india and china only pleases others, such as japs, britons, russians, yankees, ....
                    btw, india is not on the list of hated ppl for chinese, so don't add ur name to the list urself by spitting shit on the forum
                    (just kidding; u indians understand kidding/jokes/humor, rn't u?)

                    btw, an advice to indians, such as Neo, india1989,
                    DON'T BRING UR MOTHER TO THE FORUM,
                    that only shows how low u r
                    AS USUAL UR TOO THICK TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE...SO DO URSELF SOME FAVOR...TAKE SOME BOOKS AND GO BACK TO SCHOOL...

                    WHEN U OPEN UR MOUTH U BRING BAD NAME TO CHINA....DON'T RUIN THE GOOD WORK OF PEOPLE LIKE AGRA....
                    I 'll show u a new world!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I deplore the rude language used by Chinese members here. I feel embarassed and upset about the latest post of torabera who disregarded my appeal at the top of this thread not to use rough language.

                      I call on fellow Chinese to stop abusive posts so that we can have some real discussions with Indian friends.

                      May I ask torabera and Neo to delete your latest posts on this thread?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i hope chinese like datang and torabera learn something from agra. this mutual bashing will lead to nothing but hatred and more hatred. what has been said and posted is done. at least try not to post filth any more and we can have a honest discussion out here. i don't see any reason why we should belittle each other when we can work together as equals. remember one thing. we both are asians and we are better together than against each other.
                        I 'll show u a new world!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was never even rude to Chinese over here, but i was a member who never even thrown tantrums to other members but when Chinese members came and started insulting us, it changed our opinion against you guys. People like datang get support from agra and torabera. U guys insult us and thus make more enemies.

                          Showing some pics won't make a difference. Depends on how you guys behave. If you guys atleast stop being insulting it will be good enough.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The mood about the 1962 war in India is that China stabbed us in the back after sloaganeering in the 50s about India and China being brothers as Neo pointed out. People here think that Nehru trusted China too much and China took its advantage launching a war on India. The official war history of the 62 war not being released in India today don't make things clear. What should happen is if the truth about war has to come out India's investigative report has to be released and then after reading it along with China's accounts and neutral accounts truth will be arrived at. Then we will know if Nehru had been aggressive (which would have been very unlike him because he was very principled and he even stopped short of taking full possession of Indian state of Kashmir from Pakistani invasion just to stop the fighting) or China was aggressive.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I appreciate your openess regarding the true cause of 62.
                              Mr Nehru was an interesting figure who left a deep mark on international relations in the 50s. He championed representation of PRC in the UN and was a leader of the non-alignment movement.

                              However, on the border issue with China, he became a completely different person. He was advised by Malik, chief of India's CIA who was a close friend of USA CIA rep in New Delhi. Mr Nehru was convinced by Malik that China would never respond with force, hence his reckless forward policy.

                              The investigative report prepared after the war was somehow partially leaked to the Times correspondent in New Delhi, Neville Maxwell, who was reporting on the border war. He wrote a book on the war exclusively using the materials he obtained from India sources. Unfortunately his book entitled India's China War was and may still be banned in India.

                              I invite my Indian friends to take a look at the readers' review of this book at Amazon website: http://www.amazon.com/Indias-China-w...e=UTF8&s=books
                              Last edited by Agra; 02-20-2007, 02:16 AM.

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