Are Indians Racist?

[rohit khaitan]

Agra Neo has said everything i wanted to say.

And as for UN reports we care as much for UN reports as China or the rest of the world does.

How unbiased and democractic United Nations Organisation is in the hands of Americans is well known to the world.

[Agra]

In other words, the mention of discrimination against Dalits will make you guys jump like a frog. (Sorry, Megri, it is a dirty word, but borrowed from Neo.)

[rohit khaitan]

Whos jumping? We r ready to discuss the topic.

Give ur data. Support ur claim and let the truth prevail. Just because u and ur so called chinese freinds repeat the same line a hundred times a day does not mean we will accept it.

[observer]

I don't see why the UN should call India racist. First of all it's not conclusively proven that various castes in India have different descents, different culture or different skin colour etc. Secondly India officially, from the government's side, goes all out to provide preferential treatment to those of so called lower castes, providing them reservation in jobs, education etc. There is no official discrimination against anyone. So India is not racist like apartheid era South Africa even by that definition. But if caste prejudices exist in the society then prejudices exist in many countries- they exist in the US between whites and black- then why isn't the US termed a racist country too?

I don't see any way feelings of equality will be fostered among Indians by dragging such issues to international fora when consistent and great efforts have always been made by the govt. in India for the redressal of the same.

[Neo]

Agra -there's a difference between discussing things and being judgemental. when u say the efforts of indian government to convince UN have failed u sound judgemental. we on the other hand are ready to discuss things openly. my example of chinese civil war was not meant to provoke you but u did get provoked. why? because you thought i was being judgemental i guess. all i have to say, as an outsider i will not understand why china has had a history of civil wars unless u explain it to me and similarly u as an outsider will not understand caste system unless we indians explain it to you. the choice is urs. u can go by what UN says about caste system or if u r interested genuinely then engage in creative discussion. don't make sweeping remarks like u guys generally do. if we start going by UN's views about china's human rights then we could make some very caustic remarks about china too, isn't it? and i m sure after that you will say, don't go by what the west says about human rights in china, come and see for urself. don't u think this is hypocrisy on your part??

p.s.- jumping like a frog was not meant to be offensive. i don't know if frog is considered a "dirty" animal in chinese culture or what. i used it just as a comic expression.

[Agra]

Agra -there's a difference between discussing things and being judgemental. when u say the efforts of indian government to convince UN have failed u sound judgemental. we on the other hand are ready to discuss things openly. my example of chinese civil war was not meant to provoke you but u did get provoked. why? because you thought i was being judgemental i guess. all i have to say, as an outsider i will not understand why china has had a history of civil wars unless u explain it to me and similarly u as an outsider will not understand caste system unless we indians explain it to you. the choice is urs. u can go by what UN says about caste system or if u r interested genuinely then engage in creative discussion. don't make sweeping remarks like u guys generally do. if we start going by UN's views about china's human rights then we could make some very caustic remarks about china too, isn't it? and i m sure after that you will say, don't go by what the west says about human rights in china, come and see for urself. don't u think this is hypocrisy on your part??

p.s.- jumping like a frog was not meant to be offensive. i don't know if frog is considered a "dirty" animal in chinese culture or what. i used it just as a comic expression.

Neo, I see now why you acted so nervously. I pointed out the failure of Indian government to convince the UN on the practice of caste system and you considered it judgemental, hence the wrath and stinging attack of Neo on China. You are overdoing it.

For your info, UN does not say openly, but implies, that India is racist due to its caste system.

However, UN never implies that China is a racist country, despite its civil wars and bad human rights record by western standard you love to harp on. No need to discredit UN on that account. Neo's wrath again?

Whenever Neo hears some comment unpleasing to his ears about India, Neo will instinctively jump like a frog on an electronode (to borrow your words again) and try to get even by citing sth negative about China regardless of the topic being discussed. Cute. Blind nationalism or inferiority complex? or both?

India is a shining model of democracy that puts China to shame, as Neo would like to think. So pls face the fact squarely rather than be so jumpy.

You can start a new (caustic) thread about China's human rights situation if you are really interested. The current thread, however, is about Indian being racist or not.

I have no intention to mock Indian people. But there are smart people like Neo with split personalities who are ready to go very low to settle scores.

The exchanges with you guys have been informative.

-------------------------
P.S.
Frog on an electodode? It read offensive to me. Good to know that you did not mean it.

[Neo]

anyone who will read my first post and then urs will make his judgement as to who was on the electrode anyways thats not something new for me . by now i have seen that chinese do tend to carry the mirror facing others all the time.
if u saw what i said there, it says i should not judge chinese ppl as uncivilised going by their record of civil wars...i did not say they were uncivilised...thats what u assumed.
as i said the mere idea of talk about china's human rights record is a western standard for you, that merely proves my point about ur double standards.
this is not about indians being racist or not. this is a wrong title for the thread. the guy who started the thread has no idea of what racism is and what caste is. and the posts by me and rohit and observer are an attempt to open the eyes of those who wear sunglasses in a dark room
of course i could start a thread on china's human right record but to be frank i am not interested in china to say the least. that's the reason why i am not on a chinese forum u see

[rohit khaitan]

Agra its times to show u some mirror.

Here s a link and some extracts from the link.

http://tibet.dharmakara.net/ictracism.html

Moreover, the attitude in China toward religion in Tibetan culture constitutes a type of discrimination that has been recognized by the UN Committee to Eliminate Racial Discrimination.

Conclusions and Recommendations
China has a demonstrably good record in opposing racism in some of its international forms and for opposing apartheid in South Africa long before many other governments, including the government of the United States. But domestically, China lags far behind much of the world in acknowledging and addressing racism. Rather than allowing open debate about racism, China rigorously suppresses such discourse, setting back progress in the fight against racism.


What do u have to say to this???

I am sure u will agree to all this since u believe in what UN reports and white media has to say.

(And i am giving u a link and not expecting u to search for it on google. Ask me if you want more. I have a stock pile of it if ur intererested)

[Agra]

Agra its times to show u some mirror.
Conclusions and Recommendations
China has a demonstrably good record in opposing racism in some of its international forms and for opposing apartheid in South Africa long before many other governments, including the government of the United States. But domestically, China lags far behind much of the world in acknowledging and addressing racism. Rather than allowing open debate about racism, China rigorously suppresses such discourse, setting back progress in the fight against racism.


What do u have to say to this???

I am sure u will agree to all this since u believe in what UN reports and white media has to say.

(And i am giving u a link and not expecting u to search for it on google. Ask me if you want more. I have a stock pile of it if ur intererested)

Speechless? no.

I see a racist spectre in your mirror.

Comments:

1. Your post could better be placed in a new thread on China entitled, say, China, a racist country like India?. The fact that your mirror on China is posted in a thread about indians being racist shows that you have no better way to defend your treasured caste system in India.

2. Your link points to an NGO site critical of China. This is typical of NGOs fond of pulling legs of the governmets. I am sure there are many more sites like this. China is used to critism and is improving thanks to it. But not much progress is seen in the lot of Dalits in India.

One more source: http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/03/12/india15469.htm
Dalit groups held noisy demonstrations in Durban during World Conference on Racism. Their slogan Caste discrimination is Racsim was seen right at the entrance to the conference venue. There are many sites advocating Dalits rights.

if u saw what i said there, it says i should not judge chinese ppl as uncivilised going by their record of civil wars...i did not say they were uncivilised...thats what u assumed.

You did say it, although not exact wording. Smart Neo may have faulty memory sometimes.

It says chinese are not civilised and can't live peacefully with their own brothers!

the guy who started the thread has no idea of what racism is and what caste is.

You are being judgemental.

Given the attacks and attention I receive from all Indian fronts, I do not see any interest on the part of you guys, perhaps except the starter, in pursuring the otherwise interesting topic of whether Indians are racist or not.

[rohit khaitan]

Speechless? no.

I see a racist spectre in your mirror. .

Illogical statement.Baseless.

Comments:

1. Your post could better be placed in a new thread on China entitled, say, China, a racist country like India?. The fact that your mirror on China is posted in a thread about indians being racist shows that you have no better way to defend your treasured caste system in India..

You should have the logic to understand that i am just trying to show how biased can media be. But u will not understand as expected. Because it take a neutral mind and common sense to understand things. My reply was absolutely relevant to the topic and an effort to show u the facts. But u have blind folded urself. If i should not talk about China in this thread then u should not talk about it either. Why are u trying to defend it?? May be u should start a new thread that How unracist China is unlike India.

2. Your link points to an NGO site critical of China. This is typical of NGOs fond of pulling legs of the governmets. I am sure there are many more sites like this. China is used to critism and is improving thanks to it. But not much progress is seen in the lot of Dalits in India.

..

Now u call this is a NGO site critical of China. But if a site publishes anything for india its always correct. I feel like laughing now. Man do u change ur opinion to suit ur purpose???

Dalit groups held noisy demonstrations in Durban during World Conference on Racism. Their slogan Caste discrimination is Racsim was seen right at the entrance to the conference venue. There are many sites advocating Dalits rights.

..

Dalits have more rights and previledges in India then any normal indian has. I can give u facts and figures if u r interested. So if someone stands outside a world conference and shout slogans that does not change the truth.

Now can u please elaborate on how dalits are being discriminated in India?? Lets discuss it or debate it.

[Agra]

Now can u please elaborate on how dalits are being discriminated in India?? Lets discuss it or debate it.

Let's see how you would explain the following recommendations to Indian Government:

# Introduce mandatory training on the application of India’s Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act for police, judges and prosecutors, and take disciplinary measures against those who fail to implement this law.
# Ensure the protection of witnesses and victims to caste-based crimes and ensure their immediate access to effective remedies.
# Prosecute and punish perpetrators of sexual violence and sexual exploitation of Dalit women, and sanction anyone found preventing or discouraging victims from reporting such incidents, including public officials.
# Eradicate the social acceptance of caste-based discrimination through public education and awareness campaigns.
# Ensure equal access to health care, safe drinking water, and other public services.
# Investigate all alleged cases of discrimination against Dalits in post-tsunami relief and compensate or retroactively grant benefits to victims of such discrimination.
# Take effective measures to reduce dropout rates and increase enrollment rates among Dalits at all levels of schooling by providing scholarships and by ending classroom segregation.
# Ensure proper enforcement of reservations or quotas to counter the under-representation of Dalits and tribal communities in government and public services.
# Adopt measures to enhance Dalits’ access to the labor market, including by extending the reservation policy to the private sector.
# Repeal the Armed Forces Special Powers Act that, while providing the armed forces with widespread powers to search, arrest and shoot suspects, leading to allegations of human rights abuses, has immunity provisions under which troops cannot be prosecuted unless authorized by the Central Government.

Source: http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/03/12/india15469.htm

On paper, Dalits have more rights and previledges in India than any normal indian. The reality is a different story. Do you agree, rohit khaitan?

[Neo]

again, ignorance speaks from agra's words. on paper or otherwise dalits don't have more rights and privileges than "normal" indian. the constitution of india provides equal fundamental rights and duties to every citizen of the country. but then how can u know that agra. instead of admitting that as an outsider u will not understand what the political social economic situation in my country is and instead of trying to understand that by listening to what indians on this forum have to say, u will keep citing obscure sites made by some pseudo intellectuals.

the constitution of india provides for reservation in jobs and educational institutions to some castes that will historically backward socially and economically. this is different from fundamental rights which is same for every indian.

do u know the demographic distribution of castes in india and the social political prowess of the dalits?
do u know that the so called lower castes that ur harping so much about are actually the ruling class in the majority of states in india?
do u know that our prime minister, president and CJ of the supreme court are all minority or so called dalits?
do u know our constitution was drafted under a dalit - B. R. Ambedkar?
do u know that the railway minister of india who was invited recently to lecture at harvard for his brilliant effort at transforming the indian railways is a backward caste?

if u don't know the above then well u should broaden ur knowledge base before sharing ur wisdom.
if u do and still talk like u do then well ur just biased.

as rohit pointed all, u chinese are selective in choosing what western media content to be considered "true" and what to be considered "propaganda". this kind of blind nationalism probably was last seen in nazi germany.

[rohit khaitan]

Let's see how you would explain the following recommendations to Indian Governmen

Source: http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/03/12/india15469.htm?

There is a political story attached to it as well Agra. Which u will fail to understand. I will try to explain it to u. Dalits and minorities form a very large voting bank for politicians in India. So political parties at times go out of the way to woo these voters. For eg. The Prime Minister of India recently said that muslims have the first right and claim to the resources of the country. Second day if he goes to a constituency where hindus of brahmins are in majority he will change his entire speech. You know how politicians are all over the world. (Now if u look at it neutrality or logically u will know what i mean)

All these statements are regularly issued by the govt to appease this section of the vote bank. If u read my story of ant and the grasshopper now u will understand what i meant when i quoted lalu yadav and arjun singh. etc. etc.

On paper, Dalits have more rights and previledges in India than any normal indian. The reality is a different story. Do you agree, rohit khaitan?

Its not just on paper. I will show u how.


In India every individual has the fundamental right to live with equality in all spheres of life. In case of any discrimination he/ she is free to approach the courts. Traditionally Indian society was divided by profession. It happens everywhere in teh world that a businessmans son most likely ends up being a businessman and doctors son becomes a doctor. So there was a whole community that developed over the years that practised menial jobs. Also due to low income and lack of education they did not have much choice and the rich exploited this situation as anywhere in the world.

(In todays india u will find a brahmin clerk and a dalit boss. And people working in the office will not even be aware that the clerk is brahmin or the boss is dalit. They will not even care. Its performance that matters not the caste.)

To uplift this section of the society, after independence we introduced a bill for special previledges to this section for their upliftment. Special reservations were given to them in educational institutions, in govt jobs. There was lower fares and education fees for them and host of other facillities. These previledges were meant to be in place till 1961.

In 1961 an amendment was made and the bill was extended for another term. Subsequently any govt or political party could not dare to remove these reservations becuase they feared the backlash of this community. Politicians want to stay in power at all costs. Now 50 years down the line the scene is that a very large section of these people are doing very well and are in top positions in the country. But the benefits of these previledges still goes to them.

However their is still a section whose needs remain to be addressed. But caste has nothing to do here. Its purely poor vs rich. Caste division is a myth and hoopla created by politicians and foreigners to suit their individual purposes.

I cannot sum it all up in one post. Keep asking for more. i will eleaborate.

[Agra]

again, ignorance speaks from agra's words. on paper or otherwise dalits don't have more rights and privileges than "normal" indian.

Neo, you became so agitated as to challenge the obvious. Dalits do enjoy privileges specific to them on paper in India. If not, what is the reservation policy, then?

rohit khaitan, thanks for your patient and clear explanation, esp about the political games.

I have a good understanding of India to reach my own conclusion on the topic, a conclusion which can only be revealed to discerning eyes.

[Neo]

what u call obvious is actually ur assumption agra. now u smartly replaced rights with privileges...lolz...games that u guys play ...
btw reservation policy is not something on paper. there are millions of scheduled castes and dalits who are in government jobs and 40% of educational institutions including the best universities like IIT have reserved places filled every year by virtue of this reservation policy.
i don't know of any other "racist" country which has been putting this "privilege" "on paper" to action for more than half a century now.

i have nothing against you keeping your good understanding of India and conclusion to yourself agra
trouble comes when people open their mouth on public forums with wisdom spewed all over
we have a saying in india, till a crow opens it mouth, its hard to distinguish it from the cuckoo... i have no problem till the mouth of the crow remains shut...