India's Sodomy Laws, As Well As Other British-Based Laws

[Silverbackman]

bhachoudhary ==> Rohit, Observor and Sunil, if someone talks constructively we should welcome them....

bhachoudhary he he he … would you like your son to be gay?... tell us truth...

I don't want my son to be gay or daughter to be lesbian...

Alexander the Great was homosexual that’s why we (Chanakya Brahmin) screwed his ass & he has to go from India as a loser…

Alexander was away from home to win world, bloody he was screwing his own army so his own commander gave poison to him.

May be Homosexuality is a common in at least 10% of the population of all cultures but it is a mental disorder. Homosexual is not a natural phenomenon… male child is exploited sexually by stranger or by his uncle or by any other people. Which make him Gay... This is the ultimate truth about Gay.

Silverbackman it would be better if you do survey about what I had said within gays.

If 10% population does something, that never means it’s a natural phenomenon, e.g. I had never seen male dog having sexual relation with other male dog… you can consider any other mammal reptiles or birds of this world… what they do in matter of sex is natural …

If 10% population do something, that never means it’s a natural phenomenon… & if so then why USA is bomb barding on Iraq and try to put gun on Iran and other Muslim country… it’s not necessary your ideology should follow everyone.

Silverbackman in my opinion homosexuals are mentally sick.

Homosexuality is not natural…

Section 377 of the IPC: Whoever voluntarily has intercourse against the order of nature is a punishable act.

In India, homosexuality has traditionally been tolerated, not celebrated, Even Manu Smriti pronounces severe punishments for male as well as female homosexuality.

Note: - One of the forms in which Shiva is worshipped is Ardhanarishwara, containing both the female and male energies. Its actual meaning is to show that Shiv (Only god) doesn’t have masculine or feminine gender & to show that wife is part of his husband that's why we call her Ardhangani... (I.e. half body of their husband). That is not any way related to homosexuality.

Silverbackman I hope you got an idea that section 377 IPC was not only made because of bible…. even Manu Smriti pronounces severe punishments for male as well as female homosexuality.

Define "natural". Naturalism is whatever can occur. If you are asking whether homosexuality occurs in animals, the answer is yes. And it isn't necessarily because of genetic defect or whatever. Read about it here;

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=1999&x=animals

There is a common belief that homosexuality is 'unnatural' - a condition only known to fallen humanity. The rest of the animal world allegedly knows no such practice, as their only motivation for mating is the age old instinct for procreation. But is that really the case? Numerous studies have shown that same-sex couplings occur among animals, both in the field and in the lab.1 Male-male and female-female sexual activity has been observed in numerous reptilian, avian and mammalian species, with arrangements ranging from short-term trysts to stable long-term pairings.2

Biological Exuberance (St Martin's Press), by linguist and cognitive scientist Bruce Bagemihl, mentioned 94 bird species known to engage in homosexual behavior. One such species is geese (Anser Anser) - about 15 percent of pair-bondings between geese are between males, and some relationships have been documented to last over 15 years. A male bonded to another male shows 'grief' after his partner dies, just as males bonded to females do.3

Homosexuality couplings in nature do not necessarily exclude reproduction. For example, among swans, a female may mate with a gay couple and then leave her eggs for them to raise. Male couples are documented to have a higher success rate in fledging their young compared to male-female couples (80% vs 30%).4

Both male and female homosexual behavior has been reporrted in over 100 mammalian species, including primates.5 Female-female sexual encounters are well-documented among bonobos (pygmy chimpanzees), and appear to serve a social function of cementing 'alliances' and cooperation among females.6

The purpose of pointing out the existence of homosexual behavior in both wild and domestic species is not to 'promote' homosexuality or persuade the opponents of homosexuality to change their minds. Each person is entitled to his/her own moral views. We are merely suggesting that opponents of homosexuality should probably not use 'nature' as an argument.

As for whether one should judge homosexuality as moral or immoral, this should be a choice based on personal morality, not arguments about 'nature'. Gay rights activists shouldn't rely on the 'nature' argument anymore than gay rights opponents should. Just because something occurs in the natural world doesn't make it 'right' for humans. There are 'naturally-ocurring' in the animal kingdom which are considered immoral by humans universally, said practices being theft and murder. And there are many 'natural' practices that even members of the religious right in the West would consider immoral, despite their occurence in the animal world - such being rape, polyandry, polygyny, incest and adultery. I am not at all implying that homosexuality should be put in the same box as incest or polygamy; merely stating the fact that humans have created their own moral standards quite independently of the behavior of other animals, and that those who take a certain stand about homosexuality should consider using other arguments to bolster their views.

Scientists in the Developed World don't consider homosexuality as a mental disease anymore. It was removed over 30 years ago from the list of mental diseases. And that wasn't because they loved gays (America is very homophobic), the fact is that homosexuality is common in all societies and cultures and in various animals species.

But if you think homosexuality is a "mental disease" or "immoral", that is fine. That is your opinion and you are entitled to your own opinion. But you or no other person has the right to force their point of view upon others. If you say homosexuals and other sexual minorities have been tolerated in the past, then your okay with taking away the "sodomy" law, correct? Remember that your opinion or the opinion of Manu Smriti are just opinions. You have the right to follow it but you can't force it upon others. Get it?

I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of homosexuality too. It probably would have been better if all people were straight but that isn't the case. Sexual minorities exist and should therefore be tolerated (as long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others). India is a free country, unlike Pakistan or some other muslim country. So it should be free for sexual minorities as well.

[sunilkumar]

May be Homosexuality is a common in at least 10% of the population of all cultures but it is a mental disorder. Homosexual is not a natural phenomenon… male child is exploited sexually by stranger or by his uncle or by any other people. Which make him Gay... This is the ultimate truth about Gay.

You said ==> If you say homosexuals and other sexual minorities have been tolerated in the past, then your okay with taking away the "sodomy" law, correct?

For this what ever is their in Indian constitution is correct, No need to change. In India people can buy land even if they are gay, sex life of gay are private like other human being... The reason why they are not tolerated in work place because of their behavior .... gay try to have sex relation with straight…. In my one post I said they touch sexual organ of other in bus train even job place…

You said ==> your opinion or the opinion of Manu Smriti are just opinions.

Manu Smriti pronounces severe punishments for male as well as female homosexuality…. That proves that this law IPC 377 was not completely based on "Sodomy". Sodomy is a Christian sin and the word sodomy derives itself from European Christianity. Manu smriti pronounce before bible

From past 5 year nearly 6-7 hour I use to see discovery channel, nation Geographical channel, Animal channel… I had not seen any sexual relationship between two male animals. In all animal fight between two male occurs coz of female.. he he he he…. Don’t tell lie… that animal can be chimpanzee, gorilla baboon, monkey, loin, elephant, crocodile..etc…

Sliverbackman Difficult to trust site what you had given…

Sliverbackman from my childhood I use to stay away from city I had seen peacock, cobara in my surrounding, I had teased them, even fox. There was lots of languor (black faced monkey) … but I had not seen sexual relationship of male monkey with other male monkey. In my village I had seen leel gaye… in natural habbitate also.

In India I stayed in hostel with my friend, there are many people like me who stayed in hostel. We use to sleep on same bed like brother, he use to put hand on my shoulder and I use to put hand on his shoulder… that never means we were gay … In UK and USA, in public place If I put hand on my friend shoulder or he put hand on my shoulder it is consider as gay relationship.

I even heard that if any male wear pink shirt then he is consider as gay in USA.

In India we don’t have such things we can wear any thing….

Homosexuality is a common in at least 10% … things which are high in percentage is comman I don’t think 10% thing should be consider as common.

One more thing I will say I am working in good American company (MNC), here call center is also present when someone call in usa some time they come across gay customer … gay are so blunt and bull shit.. they say…we can only entertain you if you will have sexual relation with them … what a shit…

Silverbackman you need to do more survey …

In Hindi we say Gay as Gandu or Gandua ... (those who are intrested in giving their ass for fuck....)

I Am Hot Male Not Gandu..
Sunilkumar

[bhachoudhary]

Sunil,
I understand ur perspective but its just based on what u have seen what u have experienced. that has the danger of making one biased. i too grew up and studied in a social environment where i din't meet any gays. in fact as u said is pretty common in india to have male bonding without necessarily it being sexual. west is different. the important thing their is personal space. even if ur my best friend u can't intrude in my personal space. thats why u ll see people making way for others in public places, transportation etc. in a place like mumbai, talk of personal place and 5 people would jump in to fill it thats because we don't give so much importance to the concept of personal space.
this doesn't in any way reflect the human tendencies. there would be as many gays in india as in any other country of the world. in fact as u might know, traditionally enuchs or "hijras" as they are called are given a place in our society and their blessing is considered auspiscious for a new born.
where i agree with silverbackman is the idea of tolerance. our culture has always been tolerant and its the negative impact of colonial rule which has in parts taken it away.
offcourse i will not like my son to be gay but if he turns out that way i ll not disown him. even if its a mental illness as u say it is, u will not turn against someone in ur family if they are mentally ill will u?
the reason zorastrians are still surviving in India is because our kings let them come over when persia was conquered by muslim rulers who persecuted them. we even have jews. akbar was the son of a muslim father and a hindu mother ..he brought india its second golden period.
we have been tolerant to personal beliefs and i feel we should still be. aggressiveness is needed to weed out fundamentalism in our society, corruption and terrorism not against individuals who are different than us..difference is not a crime...

[sunilkumar]

I already said in In India, homosexuality has traditionally been tolerated not celebrated

Male child is exploited sexually by stranger or by his uncle or by any other people. Which make him Gay... This is the ultimate truth about Gay.

Bhachoudhary if you don’t want your son to be gay than take care of him during his childhood. I had come across few gay and I had talk with them… what ever I had said above is true… so please be aware.

IPC Section 377 has lot of thing, it’s not only about relationship of male with male or female with female… It’s also about sexual relation of human with animal.

You said i agree with silverbackman in the idea of tolerance, specially for this case… think how gay finds another gay…

He involved him self in child molest, sexual harrashment etc.… to find gay or to make other child gay….so he can get partner.

Bhachoudhary In hindi we say

"Ungali pakadayi tho haant pakadleeyea"

Another one is

"Bacha samajh ke kandhe per beethaya to kan may su su kardi…."

Bhachoudhary …. Beaware….

I have elder sisters when I was child I use to speak like them in hindi using grammar of female.. but they taught me the way male should speak with male grammer.

I loved their colorful dress but they taught me to wear what male should wear coz my gender was different.

Most of people in India say fair as beautiful… from childhood we come to know gora (fair) is symbol of beauty. So some one say Gay is normal and common and from childhood if I teach my child that gay is normal than think how human race will be… … all will be gay and homosexual…

Gay (Male those who give their ass for fuck) are mentally abnormal in matter of sex... .

Tolerate tho abhi bhi kar rahey hai gay ko…..

[rohit khaitan]

Ref: silverbackman's post


If i misspelled your username that makes me a racist??? wow. You are super intelligent.(who gives a fu** to what username u have) And what the heck is forumist????? And ya i am fine with being homophobic. Individual freedom. You will agree to it. wont u? fellow man.

And why r u pressing so hard on sodomy?? When this word is used in the law pertaining to homosexuals, thats what it implies. It obviously does not mean anal intercourse. Or if it has some other meaning. Let me know. i will be enlightened. Well i was never really interested to find out the origin of the word sodomy but if u think its so important a word that be should have a debate on it then please enlighten me fellow man.

And if u dont know what britishers mean heres what dictionary says. http://www.wordwebonline.com/search.pl?w=britishers

I speak five languages. And i never thought it was so important to find the origin of every word of every language that i spoke. Anyways if i keep interacting with people like you. I will improve on that. Thanks for your concern on my english. Correct me wherever i am wrong. And trust me i will take it positively.


Also please take the pains to educate us on what other negatives that we inherited from the british should be shown the dustbin.

And whats the source of ur statistics that India has a 10 % or larger share of sexual minority?? I would like to study the survery myself.

And as far as the topic of gays goes. I already said that anythign done behind the closed doors can never be discovered. And public show of your affection for a member of the same sex is wierd and out of place. And i surely dont believe that it should be allowed.

I understand your point of view. But i put it this way. If i say the monitor in front of u is actually a glass of water. you will probably laugh at me. But if ten other people in the room say the same thing. Then?? whose reality is more real??

Likewise if the majority do sex with member of the opposite sex. Then thats normal and natural. Any abberations from the same can very rightfully be termed unnatural and unreal. The majority of course cant kill the minortiy for this abberation. But they have full right to ask the minority to do whats not natural in their own closed habitat.