Intercaste Marriages

[soni_reasearch]

Hello everyone,

I'm new member on this site. The name attracted me to this site.
I'm a reaserach student performing the research on the Indian caste system.
As a part of the study, i m here o explore the effect of caste system on marriage
institution in India becasue in the modern india, the families are rigid when it comes
to marriage out of caste. Around us we see couples where
- Girl is from high caste and boy from low caste like (SC/ST/OBC).
- Boy from high class and the girl from low caste like (SC/ST/OBC).
- Brahmin and non-brahmin
- InterRegion couples.

I would like to welcome comments mainly on 1) & 2). Hey guys if you have seen such couples who break these barriers of this caste system & got married, please mention. Any comments on the troubles, criticism, and difficulties in pyrsuing a normal lifestyle ??

Soni

[Puneet Sood]

Some of the problems regarding the caste system would have mellowed down because of the general progress of the society. But due to the reservation we are constantly forced to remember the caste of other persons. What soever the Govt. may claim the fact is that it is constantly asking about the caste of the people.
So Intercaste marriage would have perhaps become the norm rather than abstraction.

[soni_reasearch]

Hi Puneet,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes you are right. Its very unfortunate that India is progressing only superficially.
But deep down the mentality is almost same. Even in the educated families, the caste
system creates havoc when it comes to intercaste marriage chosen by a child/sibling.
I got to talk an aquintance of mine. She is in a deadlock situtaion created by this caste system.
She likes a guy who belongs to SC community. They both want to pursue this for marriage. Now because of so much talk on reservation and also due to this caste discrimination, her parents are totally against this alliance. She is in utter confusion and agony.

Is there anyone around who has been headon with this caste system and gone ahead to
marry someone from the so called and created reserved category. Please put your or your friends experiences.

[monica]

Hi friend

I also agree with your views. Our society is full of hypocrites. People show that they don’t believe in caste system. But inwardly, they have different mentality. They cannot tolerate if their own children break the caste barrier and marry a boy or a girl of lower caste.

[Omni]

Should we exercise complete freewill in cultures, this culture will have a toll towards destruction.

We compare alot with India and with the other cultures we have came to know that we sometimes look for best in both but the best from other cultures is accepted by over generalizing Indian culture, hence the Indian cultures apply little with the current times to a more westernized culture, therefore India progresses and is viewed as a "hypocritical" and "corrupted" society.

[rohit khaitan]

And its just not the case in India. How many white parents like their children to be married in a black family??

Besides i know 3 to 4 christian families who agreed on a inter caste marriage only if the to be spouse to their child was willing to convert to christianity.

I dont think its just the problem of India. Its the problem in the whole world. People of one culture find it difficult to accept anybody with another culture as a member of their family.

By the way is this thread purely for research purpose??

[rohit khaitan]

Where r u studying. And what are u going to do with the reaseach data?

And hwo will a small sample on internet help you? Besides only the elite people in india use internet. Poor people have hardly any access to it. And thats where the caste problems are bigger. So why did u choose this medium???

Mind sharing?

[soni_reasearch]

hey ...

Nice to see replies. I got to think that this site is going inactive.

Hey, Rohit, you are right. But caste discrimination is everywhere - poor or rich.
I chose this forum because this is about Indian culture. But this would not be the
only forum/media/place for performing the research.

If you go thru the studies, statistics etc. you would realize that ofcourse discrimination is
followed everywhere but heavily in India. It could have different reasons. And how long would
we see the west and behave. We are a progressing country. And we can try and make a better
society/cullture which is getting divided due to this caste discrimination. Should we do what the west is doing, just for a comment.

And my point is not to criticize anyone. I'm just trying to take people's opinion. And in my own
opinion, having a caste system is good and required. But having caste based discrimination for
identifying a person can not be justified. And without any doubts, its followed intensely.
But after 5 years, that would lessen down. Education would play an important role. If you know
how these caste systems were created in the past, it would be lot easier to get over them.
And forums like this one would be helpful to bring up this issue and MIND SHARING.
Above all, since caste syatem influence the marriage institution, then why cant this institution
influence the caste syatem (discrmination). Being able to adjust in other caste or not is a personal decision but if the society is above the caste barriers, and educated person can take this very personal decision.


Marriage institution is one of the aspets affected by the caste based disrimination. Lot of youngesters from low caste i've come across who have come up successful in their carrier, they think of leaving the country and settling down in the west. Does it not hamper the country's progress. Lot of low caste people themselves dont want to avail of the reservation. But this is goverenment decision and this is slowly leading to the division of the society.


This is all my opinion. I dont intend to crticize anyone but i'm sure there shall be more people in favour in the coming years.

Regards

[rohit khaitan]

You didnt asnwer me. Which institute r u doing the research for. And what r u going to do with the data. How will the opinion of some people on internet help u.

If you go thru the studies, statistics etc. you would realize that ofcourse discrimination is
followed everywhere but heavily in India

Please quote which studies, statistics etc are u talking about. I disagree with ur statement that its heavily in india. It has equally plagued every country in the world.

But after 5 years, that would lessen downAnd how long would
we see the west and behave

I never said that west should be imitated. On the contrary i am saying that rasicm and casteism is a greater problem in the west. Caste system in india is much minor compared to apartheid, compared to how shipa shetty was addressed in media, as compared to how muslims and sikhs are treated in europe and america. Seats next to indians in public transports never get occupied in many places of europe. In my opinon things are much better in india.

And what will happen after 5 years? didnt get ur point. please elaborate.

Being able to adjust in other caste or not is a personal decision.

I agree its a personal decision. And in modern india no one can stop u if u r an adult and educated. At the best people can blackmail u emotionally but then its ur conviction that matters. Just like everything else in life.

Lot of youngesters from low caste i've come across who have come up successful in their carrier, they think of leaving the country and settling down in the west.

I think its not a caste problem. Its better opportunities and higher income abroad to put it simply. But with indian economy growing it should hopefully not be a problem in a near future.

But this is goverenment decision and this is slowly leading to the division of the society..

I agree with u here. With sonia maino at the helm of affairs its not surprising.

[Nikster]

It is insulting to say that the problem with the caste system in India is that, after thousands of years of discrimination, the government is setting aside a few seats in educational institutions. There is open caste discrimination in many parts of India, especially among the so called educated people. It can't be denied that 70 percent of government is run by Brahmins. This is not due to the fact they are superior in any way but rather to the fact that many low caste people have been discriminated for years. Without a doubt some of this was the Britisher's doing (with their preference for high caste advancement to divide and rule India) but we cannot escape our own responsibility for this. The real problem is that we are not providing enough resources for education to all Indians. Typically schools for Dalit and other low caste children are much worse than for high caste children and this perpetuates the divide. We need to make sure every child has the same opportunities and then we can see who is really the low caste and who is the high caste. Trust me, it will result in a very different India.

I also have a story regarding a friend of mine in the US. She is from a Brahman family. They wanted her to marry a Brahmin. She started dating an African American. The family wouldn't even let him in the house. Eventually they broke up. Now the family would be happy if she just married an Indian regardless of caste.

[rohit khaitan]

It is insulting to say that the problem with the caste system in India is that, after thousands of years of discrimination, the government is setting aside a few seats in educational institutions.

So what else should govt do? distribute money to people who fall in the cateogary of a particular caste?? There is 49 percent reservation for them in educational institues. 69 percent in tamil nadu. Reservations in parliament, govt jobs. What more do u expect?? Should the govt impose heavier taxes on people of other castes and give it away to a person who s so called dalit??? And now there are large no of dalits who are very rich, rich and middle class. And did our dirty politicians leave any stone unturned to give them more and more previledges to garner more votes??

There is open caste discrimination in many parts of India, especially among the so called educated people. It can't be denied that 70 percent of government is run by Brahmins. This is not due to the fact they are superior in any way but rather to the fact that many low caste people have been discriminated for years. .

What kind of open caste discrimination??? And if there is any is it more among educated people?? please quote the data that helped u reach the conclusion.

Who are teh 70 percent people in the govt of india who are brahmins?? Sonia maino or manmohan singh or apj abdul kalam?? Who??? Or If u r talking about the MPs which are those 70 percent Mps?

Without a doubt some of this was the Britisher's doing (with their preference for high caste advancement to divide and rule India) but we cannot escape our own responsibility for this. The real problem is that we are not providing enough resources for education to all Indians. Typically schools for Dalit and other low caste children are much worse than for high caste children and this perpetuates the divide. .

There is no school in india that is for dalit and low caste. which school are u talking about. Muncipality schools are for poor children who cant afford to pay for their education. Povery is one thing and casteism is another thing. You are confused.

We need to make sure every child has the same opportunities and then we can see who is really the low caste and who is the high caste. Trust me, it will result in a very different India. .

Equal opportunity is desirable but what do u mean later?? We will see who is high caste and whos low caste?? what does this mean??

I also have a story regarding a friend of mine in the US. She is from a Brahman family. They wanted her to marry a Brahmin. She started dating an African American. The family wouldn't even let him in the house. Eventually they broke up. Now the family would be happy if she just married an Indian regardless of caste.

Its quiet natural. Every family finds it difficult to accept someone with a different culture as a part of the family. But with time and mutual contacts these differences can be eroded and again if u have conviction no one can stop u from living a life of your choice in modern india.

[Nikster]

So what else should govt do? distribute money to people who fall in the cateogary of a particular caste?? There is 49 percent reservation for them in educational institues. 69 percent in tamil nadu. Reservations in parliament, govt jobs. What more do u expect?? Should the govt impose heavier taxes on people of other castes and give it away to a person who s so called dalit??? And now there are large no of dalits who are very rich, rich and middle class. And did our dirty politicians leave any stone unturned to give them more and more previledges to garner more votes??

If you read to the end of my post you would see one of my remedies - universal eduactional opportunities. Even with the amounts of reservations for SC and ST, many do not have access because they are not given the primary and secondary education that will enable them to take advantage of these seats. That is why many of these seats reserved for SCs STs are not taken up and instead corrupt University administrators sell them to those who are wealthy enough to pay (usually higher caste). For a list of the disparity that exists see http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/12/07...0707621100.htm

Government jobs that are given to SC STs are usually the low paying street cleaning type jobs and with India's economy joining the international fold, private enterprise will be much more prevalent in providing jobs. This will mean that universal education must be implemented for all Indian children regardless of caste. That way the SCs will be able to compete fairly with the Brahmins.

I doubt taxing higher caste or wealthier people is a good idea becasue India's tax base is a mere 80,000. If you are from India you will know that no one pays taxes (another issue India needs to deal with and is dealing with according to reports by the CBDT).

Finally, although there are a few SCs and STs who have benefitted, it is important to remember that the vast majority still live in poverty.

What kind of open caste discrimination??? And if there is any is it more among educated people?? please quote the data that helped u reach the conclusion.

My roommate spent two years travelling India and working for an NGO that documented discrimination on low caste Hindus. From what he found, many of the lower castes are heavily discriminated against, even in the cities. People tend to find out from their accent or their last names what their caste is. According to him many people have lost jobs once an employer discovers they are of a lower caste. Just read this article to see how it continues http://www.tehelka.com/story_main26....07Still_No.asp or if you want more proof just read any of the numerous documents out there that show how discrimination persists. People are protesting for a reason after all. I have seen it with my own eyes when I was a child in Kanpur. A woman was walking past my uncle's house. She stopped, looked at someone who had walked past her, then turned around and walked back. It turns out she was disgusted that the shadow of a Dalit had fallen on her and she turned around to go back home to wash. She was a friend of my uncle.

Who are teh 70 percent people in the govt of india who are brahmins?? Sonia maino or manmohan singh or apj abdul kalam?? Who??? Or If u r talking about the MPs which are those 70 percent Mps?

It's interesting you present the top names in government to support your argument. If you take the entire governmetn bureaucracy you will find that most of them are of higher caste and are Hindus (it makes sense since 80 percent of the country is Hindu). I don't have any access to the resources I used because I read that statistic five years ago in an Indian publication but go to http://www.dalitvoice.org/index.htm to learn more.

There is no school in india that is for dalit and low caste. which school are u talking about. Muncipality schools are for poor children who cant afford to pay for their education. Povery is one thing and casteism is another thing. You are confused.

Poverty and casteism are intertwined. If the rich high castes can afford better schools and better opportunities, it is a clouding of the issue to say that SCs and STs are only there because they are poor. The reason they are poor is because of the historical discrimination that they have faced. This is why we need to increase education funding and make sure the teachers who are paid to teach in these municipal schools show up (right now only 30% do) and more funds should be made available for these children to have the same education as every other Indian. Surely India is at a position that it can start to educate it's population. If China can hae a 90% literacy rate (it reached this level back when it was poorer than India), then India should certainly be able to reach it now. Look how Kerala broke down caste discrimination to reach a 95% literacy rate.


Equal opportunity is desirable but what do u mean later?? We will see who is high caste and whos low caste?? what does this mean??[/QUOTE]

I said equal opportunity to education. Every child, no matter what class or what caste should be given the same opportunity. My friend from college complained that he worked really hard and had all these tutors after school and still only got in the top 88% in the board exams but a Dalit student could get into college with 50% score. I answered that maybe if that Dalit had a tutor and time to study instead of having to work to help his or her family he would be able to score 90% or above. He was a Brahmin by the way, complaining that he was discriminated against while studying in an American college and his dad was one of the wealthiest businessmen in Bombay. When I say we need equality I mean that if a tutor is available for my friend he should be available for everyone from all castes.

Its quiet natural. Every family finds it difficult to accept someone with a different culture as a part of the family. But with time and mutual contacts these differences can be eroded and again if u have conviction no one can stop u from living a life of your choice in modern india.

This was not a case of culture clash. It was pure racism. If he was of a lower caste or Muslim they would have treated him just as bad. If he was white they would have accepted him much more (although still treated him less than they would a Brahmin). I wonder if this was a white family that treated an Indian the same way you would be so understanding (judging from the way you responded in your earlier post to Shilpa Shetty's treatment I highly doubt it). They would not even let him into their house. In contrast, her boyfriend's family was much nicer and welcomed her with open arms into their family. It seems they didn't have such a problem with "culture clash."

In conclusion, just making a few quotas that are barely filled is hardly a way to make up for hundreds of years of discrimination. It is going to take a lot more than that and a lot longer to see the results of breaking down caste divisions. If such a small amount of reparations for past discrimination is casuing such a stir I have my doubts the SCs or STs will ever be able to achieve parity with other Indians. Until that time is reached India will always be a backwards country.

[rohit khaitan]

If you read to the end of my post you would see one of my remedies - universal eduactional opportunities. Even with the amounts of reservations for SC and ST, many do not have access because they are not given the primary and secondary education that will enable them to take advantage of these seats. That is why many of these seats reserved for SCs STs are not taken up and instead corrupt University administrators sell them to those who are wealthy enough to pay (usually higher caste). For a list of the disparity that exists see http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/12/07...0707621100.htm.

How can u say that they are not given the primary and seconday eduaction? Infact all govt schools as well as schools funded by govt have provisions that A child from Schedule caste and schedulle tribe can pay half the fees. Then there are pre matric scholarships. And in fact govt schools provide free education along with mid day meals. No school says that if u belong to schedule caste or schedule tribe we will not enroll u. And also they have enough opportunities in the country to study even if they do not have enough money. I again repeat my self ur confusing between poverty and casteism. Not all SC ST people are poor and neither are all so called upper caste people rich.

Infact poor people belonging to general castes do not get these special benefits in education that people from SC ST get.

I also checked ur reference. The first thing it says that the policies of govt should be pro poor and not caste based. Later on some statistics are given for enrollment in higher educations by different classes. I think enrollemnt in higher education is a personal choice. And no body in the country stops u from enrolling. The fact that people often take faked SC ST certificates to enroll in higher education shows that people in general categoy are at a disadvatage vis a vis SC ST students when in comes to higher education.

Government jobs that are given to SC STs are usually the low paying street cleaning type jobs and with India's economy joining the international fold, private enterprise will be much more prevalent in providing jobs. This will mean that universal education must be implemented for all Indian children regardless of caste. That way the SCs will be able to compete fairly with the Brahmins.

The above para posted by u is absolutely baseless. There are reservations for SC STs in IAS IFS IPS IES services. These are teh highest civil services exams conducted by the govt. Also a student from SC ST is eligible to appear till the age of 30 as against the age bar of 27 for others. Then if u take CA and CS courses. a student from SC ST category have to pay half the fees. In banking exams there are relaxations in age fro SC ST students.

And yes education is available to all in india and caste has nothing to do here. You are talking baselessly as far as educational opportunities goes.

I doubt taxing higher caste or wealthier people is a good idea becasue India's tax base is a mere 80,000. If you are from India you will know that no one pays taxes (another issue India needs to deal with and is dealing with according to reports by the CBDT).

Finally, although there are a few SCs and STs who have benefitted, it is important to remember that the vast majority still live in poverty.

If playing robin hood is not a good idea. What else do u expect? What do u think govt and society should do. Dont tell me what is desirable. We all know the problem. Whats the solution??? And why should the govt favour some caste and tribe. If at all something constructive needs to be done it should be based on economic status and not caste.

My roommate spent two years travelling India and working for an NGO that documented discrimination on low caste Hindus. From what he found, many of the lower castes are heavily discriminated against, even in the cities. People tend to find out from their accent or their last names what their caste is. According to him many people have lost jobs once an employer discovers they are of a lower caste. Just read this article to see how it continues http://www.tehelka.com/story_main26....07Still_No.asp or if you want more proof just read any of the numerous documents out there that show how discrimination persists. People are protesting for a reason after all. I have seen it with my own eyes when I was a child in Kanpur. A woman was walking past my uncle's house. She stopped, looked at someone who had walked past her, then turned around and walked back. It turns out she was disgusted that the shadow of a Dalit had fallen on her and she turned around to go back home to wash. She was a friend of my uncle..

I dont think anyone will throw u out of tata group or brila group or reliance industries or any goddamn co in the country if ur sirname suggests that u belong to SC and ST. I dont deny that some individuals discriminate in their private capacity but thats more of an exception then a rule. And if any gross discrimination is done based on caste, you can approach a court and get that persons life miserable. There are murderers, rapists and corrupt people in the society as well and in large nos. But by quoting a few murders u cant say that this is the country of murderers.

I read ur reference. Two brothers of this guy went out to another village and found another vocation for themselves. So u see the opportunity is there. Its about when u realise that times have changed and i have other options too. We cant change the past of course but we have a system in place at present and thats the only thing i am arguing on.

It's interesting you present the top names in government to support your argument. If you take the entire governmetn bureaucracy you will find that most of them are of higher caste and are Hindus (it makes sense since 80 percent of the country is Hindu). I don't have any access to the resources I used because I read that statistic five years ago in an Indian publication but go to http://www.dalitvoice.org/index.htm to learn more. .

You gave me a link of the website. I will appreciate if u can give a link to the relevant article.

[rohit khaitan]

Poverty and casteism are intertwined. If the rich high castes can afford better schools and better opportunities, it is a clouding of the issue to say that SCs and STs are only there because they are poor. The reason they are poor is because of the historical discrimination that they have faced. This is why we need to increase education funding and make sure the teachers who are paid to teach in these municipal schools show up (right now only 30% do) and more funds should be made available for these children to have the same education as every other Indian. Surely India is at a position that it can start to educate it's population. If China can hae a 90% literacy rate (it reached this level back when it was poorer than India), then India should certainly be able to reach it now. Look how Kerala broke down caste discrimination to reach a 95% literacy rate.

All right lets take a vague figure that 80 percent poor people are SC ST and only 20 percent from other categories. Then why are u saying that something should be done for this 80 percent? What about the other 20 percent? You can say that something should be done for the poor. Why do u want to raise the issue of caste? Arent u sowing the seeds for dividing the society. If we claim special previledges just because we r muslim or SC ST then where is the society headed?? The end result will be division of siciety. Why dont u say that poverty in india is a major problem. Why does it have to be SC ST or muslims. There are poor in all castes and rich in all. Their percentage may vary. But the issue is poverty and not caste.

And if some previledges are given based on caste. Will it not be just the reverse discrimination? A hundred years down the line people from general category will say that we are discriminated against. You are doing the same mistake that our forefathers did thousands of years back.

I said equal opportunity to education. Every child, no matter what class or what caste should be given the same opportunity. My friend from college complained that he worked really hard and had all these tutors after school and still only got in the top 88% in the board exams but a Dalit student could get into college with 50% score. I answered that maybe if that Dalit had a tutor and time to study instead of having to work to help his or her family he would be able to score 90% or above. He was a Brahmin by the way, complaining that he was discriminated against while studying in an American college and his dad was one of the wealthiest businessmen in Bombay. When I say we need equality I mean that if a tutor is available for my friend he should be available for everyone from all castes.

You are contradicting yourself in the paragraph. You are saying that there should be equal opportunity for all and ur also advocating reservations. How can u say for sure that if this person in question had access to money he would have scored more then 88 percent?? And if at all any consideration has to be given why based on caste and why not based on economic status.

This was not a case of culture clash. It was pure racism. If he was of a lower caste or Muslim they would have treated him just as bad. If he was white they would have accepted him much more (although still treated him less than they would a Brahmin). I wonder if this was a white family that treated an Indian the same way you would be so understanding (judging from the way you responded in your earlier post to Shilpa Shetty's treatment I highly doubt it). They would not even let him into their house. In contrast, her boyfriend's family was much nicer and welcomed her with open arms into their family. It seems they didn't have such a problem with "culture clash."

I dont know the people u are talking about personally so cant comment much on that. But if they were so racist why did they accept the relationship later on? And if they did eventually whats the issue now?

And if u think that there is no racism in europe let me remind u there is still something called aperthaid in parts of south africa. A 14 year old sikh boy was recently beaten up by his classmates in london and his turban torned off. Indians living in US and UK face this discrimination often. And it were the british who wrote "dogs and indians not allowed" outside every public gathering of theirs. Are u a british by the way?? just curious.

In conclusion, just making a few quotas that are barely filled is hardly a way to make up for hundreds of years of discrimination. It is going to take a lot more than that and a lot longer to see the results of breaking down caste divisions. If such a small amount of reparations for past discrimination is casuing such a stir I have my doubts the SCs or STs will ever be able to achieve parity with other Indians. Until that time is reached India will always be a backwards country.

These reservations are in place for 57 years now. And poor people from other castes have been discriminated against. I want to ask why any previledges based on caste and why not based on economic status??

[Nikster]

All right lets take a vague figure that 80 percent poor people are SC ST and only 20 percent from other categories. Then why are u saying that something should be done for this 80 percent? What about the other 20 percent? You can say that something should be done for the poor. Why do u want to raise the issue of caste? Arent u sowing the seeds for dividing the society. If we claim special previledges just because we r muslim or SC ST then where is the society headed?? The end result will be division of siciety. Why dont u say that poverty in india is a major problem. Why does it have to be SC ST or muslims. There are poor in all castes and rich in all. Their percentage may vary. But the issue is poverty and not caste.

I am not dividing the country, statistic after statistic and bare bones reality has already divided the country on caste, religious, and other grounds. Every analysis of the situation has consistently shown that the incidence of poverty among SC and ST households is significantly higher than non-scheduled households. Differences in educational attainment explain about one quarter of the poverty gap. Occupational structure strongly matters in determining the poverty gap for both SC and ST, as does differences in returns to individual occupations. This has been related to historic discrimination.

Your number of 80% is incorrect. According to the 1991 census of India, SCs and STs comprise about 16.5 percent and 8.1 percent of India's population but 43.53 percent of India's rural poor. This is not a coincidence but a result of a lack of education, workplace discrimination, and employment discrimination. What I have been trying to say is that simply giving a few seats away at colleges and Universities is not going to tackle the problem, it is only a start. Considering this small amount of redistribution is already receiving so much vociferous opposition, I feel disheartened the situation will ever change. Until it does, India will never be able to reach it's potential because it is excluding a great number of it's people from the opportunity of a better life. If the majority of the people cannot be treated with dignity and lifted out of poverty, then there is no hope for India.

And if some previledges are given based on caste. Will it not be just the reverse discrimination? A hundred years down the line people from general category will say that we are discriminated against. You are doing the same mistake that our forefathers did thousands of years back.

This reverse discrimination argument has been consistently raised by those in power. However, no one is advocating reverse discrimination. It cannot be denied that SCs and STs are already experiencing discrimination in education (with less money in general spent on them), in employement (with less hiring in SC and ST groups), and while employed (being passed over for promotion because of thier caste). These are all backed up by almost every study done on SCs and STs. By providing some seats in higher education for those who have not had the benefits that non STs and SCs have had is not reverse discrimination, it is simply making a slight dent in giving the SCs and STs the same opportunities enjoyed by non SCs and STs. Much more needs to be done to give STs and SCs the same opportunites. A few reservations is only the start. There must be universal education for all castes. There must be blindnes in all employment decisions regardless of caste. Until that time comes it is necessary to provide other means of fighting the culture and systems that perpetuates SC and ST poverty. Reservations and job quotas is but one of those remedies and that is why I am fully for them.

You are contradicting yourself in the paragraph. You are saying that there should be equal opportunity for all and ur also advocating reservations. How can u say for sure that if this person in question had access to money he would have scored more then 88 percent?? And if at all any consideration has to be given why based on caste and why not based on economic status.

I answered this in the paragraph above.

I dont know the people u are talking about personally so cant comment much on that. But if they were so racist why did they accept the relationship later on? And if they did eventually whats the issue now?

I don't think you read my paragraph fully. They never accepted the relationship. Both eventually broke up because the family would not accept an African American with their daughter. I was personally disgusted that an Indian family would come to the US, take advantage of all the liberties and civil rights that African Americans fought for all minorities to have, and then treat an African American whose family had lived here for two centuries as if they were beneath them. I have other Indian friends who have experienced the same thing. Another Indian friend of mine had a cousing who married an African American and the entire family disowned her and won't even talk to her. The other point I wanted to make about this story was that now her parents just want her to marry ANY Indian, even an SC or ST or Sikh or Jain. I thought that was interesting. What was even more interesting was that they would never accept a Muslim. This goes to show the amount of religious discrimination that still exists in India.

And if u think that there is no racism in europe let me remind u there is still something called aperthaid in parts of south africa. A 14 year old sikh boy was recently beaten up by his classmates in london and his turban torned off. Indians living in US and UK face this discrimination often. And it were the british who wrote "dogs and indians not allowed" outside every public gathering of theirs. Are u a british by the way?? just curious.

Well, fist off I never said there was no racism in the West. There is untold amount of racism here. Furthermore, I should not have to make a statement to show where I am from because all my arguments are based on facts. However, if you need verification, I am Indian. I was born and raised in India, then I moved to the UK when I was 8 and then I went to high school and University in the US where I live and work. I have experienced the world growing up in many different countries. Although I have travelled much my family are poor economic migrants. I know what life is like to be a poor outsider in the West where i have been beaten going to school and experienced unknown discrimination that I will not get into. Most of my family is in India and I come back every year and constantly keep in touch because that is the place I have always considered home and it will always be my home. I work and put up with this so my family can have a better life in India. It is also why I refuse to give up my Indian citizenship. What I find most disturbing is that no matter what I have gone through in the West I have been treated much better than how I see people in India treat each other. That is why I feel I can speak with more authority on what is happening in India. As for what the British did, do you think how people treat SC and ST and Muslims is any different in India? What i have seen is much worse that what I have experienced in the West. That is why I passionately feel things have to change in India or it will never reach its potential.

These reservations are in place for 57 years now. And poor people from other castes have been discriminated against. I want to ask why any previledges based on caste and why not based on economic status??

Poor people from other castes have not been discriminated against, and nowhere near the amount of discrimination that is experienced by other groups in India. The fact I have to make this point to such an extent is why I have little hope that things will change in India. Even with the economic boom all of it is concentrated in the rich and upper castes. Please read above for my arguments on this point. Also, for anyone reading this a good study on SC ST can be found at ftp://repec.iza.org/RePEc/Discussionpaper/dp629.pdf. I know India is rising but I implore anyone reading this to do much more to help the lot of the majority of people in India who are still living in abject poverty, much of which is the result of discrimination. Only when we can truly life the lot of all of India, not just the upper castes and rich, will India rise. Jai Hind.